timing the HEI distributor with no. 1 cylinder on 350

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by Lane in Mt.Hermon, May 29, 2020.

  1. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    My engine rebuild DVD is not working soooooo ...... I need a resource for getting my aftermarket HEI distributor I purchased from TA in sync with number one cylinder [and I am aware it is the first cylinder on the right looking from the front]. Getting ready to place the distributor in the 350 v8 block and align with its firing order [18436572] ....... but not sure about getting it right without my rebuild DVD which was so helpful start to finish. Is there some place on our forum or another source to go for some specific instructions. It is simple I'm sure but like to be confident when doing something like this as the non-working DVD is really the only working reference I have. I rebuilt the engine and painted same over a year or so ago. Thanks to all.

    Lane
     
  2. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I can help you Lane, Is there a working distributor in the engine at present, or are you installing one for the first time?

    Which TA distributor are you installing? The big cap HEI, or the small cap one that looks like an MSD ready to run?
     
  3. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    No such thing as an "in sync" distributor
    #1 is anywhere you want it to be on the cap.

    This is what the manuals say, but as long as you have #1 cylinder at tdc of compression (piston at tdc after intake closes, but before exhaust opens, take driver's side valve cover off) and follow the firing order in the direction of distributor rotation (clockwise), you'll be fine.
    unnamed (1).jpg

    Also TA has good HEI distributors for around $100 last time I checked. Timing curve is a little lazy but it will work fine as is.
     
  4. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    you didnt tell us what car this is for
    if that car originally came with a points ignition, dont forget to remove the resistor wire that powered the coil
    hei needs the full voltage
     
  5. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    The distributor is a TA 690 and is tall [don't think it's the MSD type]. I really had no idea that it could be oriented wherever I wanted. That diagram is helpful MrSony. There isn't a working distributor as the original one {HEI} caught on fire while previous owner was attempting to get things going. I took everything apart over 6 years ago and didn't attempt to mark anything so my usual visual markers of orientation on the block and distributor wouldn't help. I kind of figured it could be sorted out later easily enough. My engine overhaul/rebuild experiences only include my Ford tractors across the last 50 years. Tackling the 350 v8 was new for me and this forum has been a gold mine to say the least. FYI - the engine is from 1975 according to the serial number and don't know what it came out of ........ it was paired with a 1970 TH 400 which I also rebuilt last year. Believe it or not guys these are sitting in a 1946 Chevrolet pickup. Having loved Buicks my whole life I thought I would leave it but get inside to see what was there. Both the tranny and engine needed overhaul [73 year old retiree] so I just did it. I also put the cab and bed etc. on an S10 frame for a more modern ride. Thanks everyone for the wisdom. Apologize for the initial mixed up question and the 'too much information' in this post.
     
    Mark Demko likes this.
  6. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    there is a partial vin on the front of the block, maybe that will help to tell you more about the model of the original car?
    it will show make, year, plant and sequential production number
     
  7. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    thanks Nailhead ......... I'll have to look for that and have always wondered what it came out of ....... other than from 1975
     
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Yes you can put the #1 wire anywhere on the distributor cap and follow the firing order clockwise and it will work, but why do that if you are setting this up for the first time? On a points cap, the #1 tower is the tower between the point adjustment window and the vacuum advance. The TA690 is a 350 Big Cap HEI distributor. The #1 wire will be in the same general location, close to the vacuum advance. Then just follow the firing order CW around the cap.

    The most important two things are make sure you have the #1 piston on the compression stroke, NOT the exhaust stroke. This is the most common mistake made when installing a distributor. The crank turns twice for every revolution of the camshaft. Simply lining up the timing mark with the 0 on the timing scale does not guarantee that you are on the compression stroke. What you want to do is SLOWLY BUMP the starter over while feeling for compression in the #spark plug hole. You can use a cork or your finger over the hole. If the valve covers are off, you can watch the #1 intake valve. It's the second valve from the front. The intake valve will open, and then close on the compression stroke. When you feel compression, or see the intake valve close, continue turning the crank (CW), or bumping the starter and watch for the timing mark. Line the mark up with the 0 on the timing scale, or the number you wish to run for initial timing. Since the TA690 comes with 22* of mechanical advance, TA recommends setting the initial timing at 12*. When you install the distributor, aim the rotor firing tip at the #1 tower of the cap. The distributor drive gear is helical, so as you push the distributor home, the rotor will turn. That means you will need to start with the rotor in a position such that when it turns, it will end up where you want it to. You will also want the vacuum advance pointing towards the alternator. The second important thing is the oil pump drive. You want the tang on the bottom of the distributor shaft to mesh with the oil pump drive shaft. You can turn the oil pump shaft to facilitate this. When everything is meshed correctly, the distributor will be fully seated. This is very important. If it isn't seated, the oil pump will not turn, and the engine may start and make NO OIL PRESSURE. Once you get it seated, install the hold down and bolt tight enough so that you can just turn the distributor by hand. If you don't do this, it is possible for the distributor to pop up upon start up, and again, no oil pressure.

    This can be tricky to do if you have never done it before. The big HEI cap makes this more difficult. The big cap can hit the front of the intake manifold limiting the amount of rotation you have to adjust your initial timing. If you install it wrong, you will run out of rotation before you can adjust the initial timing. If this happens, you will need to remove the distributor and re install it. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
    Mart likes this.
  9. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Lane,

    Finding top dead center on #1 cyl. is so EASY it's ridiculous. Pull out #1 plug. Stick your finger in the hole & have someone tap the engine over. Just a tap. If it goes too far do it again. When you feel air starting to come out stop & look at the position of the timing mark. Now turn the engine over by hand until the timing mark is on ZERO.
    Pop in the dist. paying attention to where the rotor is pointing in relation to where #1 is on the cap. You may want to install the cap & put a mark on the dist. housing to help you visualize where #1 is on the dist. You will notice the rotor turns. It MUST line up with the mark on the dist. IF it won't go in all the way don't try forcing it. The notch in the end shaft of the dist. NEEDS to line up with the oil pump shaft. Look at the bottom shaft of the dist. to get an approximation/relationship of the slot in the dist. to line up with the slot in the oil pump. Turn the oil pump shaft with a long screwdriver until you think it's aligned properly & try to install the dist. again. IF it still won't go try again.
    I think after awhile you will get the hang of it. Once you've done it a few times you will NEVER worry about a dist. install again.

    Tom T.
     
    Jeff Pulera and Mart like this.
  10. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    I love it ......... thank you for all these details to help avoid pitfalls or mistakes I will surely make .........
     
  11. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    One last thing I forgot to say that is relevant - this distributor has a clear cap! Don't know why I did that, maybe because it would be cute! ........ anyhow it allows me to see where things are lined up
     
  12. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    Dont stick your finger IN the hole, if it fits. Just over it will be fine. I imagine you like having all 10(?) fingers just fine.
     
  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    :D Unless you have fingers the size of a child, or you use your pinky, I don't think you could get your finger deep enough for the piston to hit it. If this were not so, your spark plugs wouldn't last 2 revolutions of the crank. Still, in the name of common sense, I guess we should specify that you COVER the hole with your finger.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  14. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

  15. 12lives

    12lives Control the controllable, let the rest go

    Is the motor out of the car? If so, put your top radiator hose on and check for clearance around hose. My HEI in the 350 straddles the hose between the vac advance and the electrical hook up. Won't fit any other way in my motor and it still gives me about 10* rotation.
     
  16. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    I had bought an oil priming tool from TA and will prime it a day or two. Do I look for oil coming up into the area under the valve covers? And will it stay primed as it will probably be several weeks before trying to crank it. I have yet to wire things in the engine bay and was waiting till stuff was straightened out [if that's possible] before putting the Sniper Quadrajet EFI in place to then attempt to crank for the first time. I installed the radiator hose yesterday and it runs straight up to the middle of the custom radiator. I could see that it might be tight. Everything is tight in this narrow engine bay. It will be a job finding TDC because the starter is not hot yet but with the plugs out I might be able to turn the engine by hand [easy on the 4 cylinder tractors]. Just looked at 12lives 'example' link and it looks like the last thing to get oil is the driver side valve cover. Thanks everybody ..... [I won't stick my finger in the hole]
     
  17. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Forget about the oil in the heads, once you feel the drill load up, you are done. It will stay primed. I would get the engine running with a carburetor first. You are always better off doing things in steps, that way, when something doesn't work, you can go back one step. You need to wire things up first. Finding TDC is EASY, just line the marks up, finding TDC COMPRESSION is what you must do. If the starter isn't operational, use a breaker bar and socket and watch the #1 intake valve. As it closes, the piston will be on it's way up the cylinder on compression. Keep turning the crank CW until the mark comes around.
     
    12lives likes this.
  18. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    Thanks Larry ......... I know you're right about the carburetor first and iron things out then put the EFI in place.
     
    12lives likes this.
  19. Electra Bob

    Electra Bob Well-Known Member

    I just replaced the stock distributor for a Holley Hyperspark (had already converted to Sniper Quadrajet) and being a one man band I got one of these:

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...D_s5razBnmhLHX7yZVNc4VjpcUW3WTvBoC_c4QAvD_BwE

    Which is a TDC whistle and lets you know when #1 is on compression stroke. I also didn't like the idea of bumping the engine with the starter what with all the new wiring so I removed all the plugs (was switching to new ones anyway) and used a socket and breaker bar on the balancer nut to turn the engine over. I did have to remove the fan shroud and fan to get enough room for that but not a huge job. That made for an easy way to nudge up to the 0* mark.

    Good luck with the Sniper install!

    Bob
     
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  20. Lane in Mt.Hermon

    Lane in Mt.Hermon Well-Known Member

    Bob, I like the whistle [looked at it on Summit] .............. I'm a one man shop myself mostly because of a rural location and liking to do everything myself [also helps me learn new things - I should be afraid]. After Larry said earlier/yesterday about the carburetor first I got out my 2 old quadrajet carbs and they are so decrepit that they probably won't work without rebuilding one of 'em ........... I knew this was going to be an issue installing the Sniper on an engine that had not been cranked as there is so much to work out before attempting to dial in the new EFI. All my fuel lines and new tank with the higher pressure fuel pump are ready to go. One more hoop to jump. How does the whistle know it's the compression stroke or did you determine that from watching the valves? thanks
     

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