timing on passenger side

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by thapachuco, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    my engine is in need of a tune up. I replaced the spark plugs. A new distributor cap / rotor next (pointless system).

    When i plug the distributor and clamp my timing light to the plug closest to my front bumper (driver side) my timing mark appears on the passenger side, about where the timing tab would be if it was on the driver side.

    what the hell am i doing wrong?

    i was considering capping off ALL vacuum holes on the block then trying it again.

    Suggestions?

    by the way, i had a stock rebuild on it done 5 years ago. It's a 340 1967 LeSabre engine.
     
  2. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    anyone have some insight?
     
  3. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Wires mixed up? Harmonic balancer slipped? faulty timing light? I had a similar issue a while back after changing to a petronixs unit...but for the life of me I cannot remember what the cause was...
     
  4. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    i've tried it with 2 different timing lights and the same issue comes up. How does the balancer slip? How can i fix that?

    thanks
     
  5. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    To find out if the ballancer slipped you would have to set the engine to top dead center on the compression stroke of number 1 cylinder and see where the mark sits. I bet your vacuum advance canister is still plugged in from a vacuum source and you aer getting extra timing at idle advancing the timing out of the range of the tab. Disconnect the line and plug it and also be sure your idle is low enough that the mechanical advance is not adding timing to the initial or base timing.
     
  6. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    Hi, what is the proper procedure to get the piston on the compression stroke. I have trouble differentiating the compression from the exhaust stroke.

    i did plug the vacuum advance.

    If i plug every vacuum hole from the block, will this give me a better timing?
     
  7. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Platinum Level Contributor

    On the exhaust stroke, both valves on that cylinder are open. You can look inside the spark plug hole to see if they're open or closed, or put a compression tester on cylinder number 1, and bump the starter until you build pressure - which indicates you're on the compression stroke. Then remove the pressure tester, and use a breaker bar on the balancer bolt to turn the engine by hand to TDC. Once you've got the piston all the way up, check your timing mark.

    If the balancer has slipped, you need to replace it. I've never heard of anybody repairing them before.
     
  8. BrunoD

    BrunoD Looking for Fast Eddie

    Pardon my ignorance,but what do you mean by you put the timing light in the wire close to the bumper?If that's #1,it's OK,but you have to understand that the timing light has to be on #1 cylinder to give you the right reading,so find #1 cylinder and put the timing light on that wire,as close to the cap as you can.BrunoD.
     
  9. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    yes, im assuming that plug wire is my #1 cylinder. i just couldn't remember if it was on the passenger or driver side.

    I've been doing research and it's possible that my balancer has slipped due to worn rubber etc. So i plan on using a Piston Stop to mark new lines on the balancer. From there i will re-time the car and hopefully smooth out the car. My book says to put it 12-15* BTDC (if im remembering correctly)

    My main concern is, if i line everything up as the manual says, how do i know that my timing is correct? How do i know that the engine is running at it's optimal performance?

    ---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

    it's not just a matter of re-marking the balancer with new lines? Is it a difficult replacement?
    So if the lines are in fact a different location, then i can assume the balancer is done for?
     
  10. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Platinum Level Contributor


    I'm afraid so. The balancer is a precisely-designed counter-weight for your particular engine, not just a holder for the timing marks. If the outer ring has slipped, the balancer is no longer correctly balancing your crankshaft when it turns, and may actually end up working against the engine, causing vibration and damage. I've seen the outer rings completely fall off, yet the engine can still operate...though the engine will now shake like crazy through the RPM range.

    You should be able to get a replacement balancer for about $50. A good ratchet and a puller tool can change it out in an hour. You first need to remove all the belts and pulley from the old balancer, remove the crank bolt in the center, then just use the puller to get the old one off the crankshaft. Just be careful when installing the new one that you don't cross-thread the crank bolt. Get the new one keyed up, then hit it with a rubber mallet until you can thread the bolt in at least 3-4 turns. Then you tighten it to proper torque, and re-install your pulley and belts. Cook's NAPA auto on 4th street should have everything you need.
     
  11. staged70

    staged70 RIP

    Balancers are rebuildable check on hemmings.com and look for services offered. I thiunk they are called thebalancerboys or something like that
     
  12. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the info! Are there any tell-tale signs that the balancer needs to be replaced? The timing marks being on the passenger side could be an indicator. Anything else i can check? I have noticed that the engine has been shaking a little more than usual. I was gearing up for a carburetor rebuild, thinking that it had a vacuum leak and was causing the shaking.

    Do i need to remove/drain the radiator as well? and remove the front grille etc?

    ---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------

    cool i'll check them out!

    ---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

    Hey Lemmy,

    I tried looking on Napa auto's website and they dont seem to have any balancers that come up in the searches. Do you have the number of someone i can call here in San Jose?

    thanks!
     
  13. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Platinum Level Contributor

    No need to drain anything. All you do is remove the belts & pulley, then swap the balancer out. There's a seal on the timing cover, but if it's not leaking you can continue to use it.

    Call Cook's (408) 453-7771 and speak to any of the guys there at the parts counter. They'll be able to help.
     
  14. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    Awesome, thanks!
     
  15. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    Buick balancers slide on and off, no need for a puller:TU:
     
  16. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    say what?! That. Is. AWESOME!

    when i put the new one back on, do i need to have everything lined up to TDC, Balancer pointing to TDC on Tab, #1 piston on compression and rotor at #1?

    thanks again
     
  17. mhgs

    mhgs it just takes money !!

    From what you have been describing.... your balancer would be off by about 30 + degrees. Although possible....NOT.... I would venture to say that you have the either the wrong plug attached to the timing light, or maybe even worn advance plate and or weights that have stuck. Does the car ping alot more than it did ? If not then there is no way you have 30 degrees at idle and then advance....what does the motor idle at now ????
     
  18. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    To keep it simple just stick a cork in the number 1 hole and turn the engine till the cork pops out and then line up TDC.

    You asked about signs of a bad damper:

    Look for cracking in the rubber between the inner and outer parts of the balancer.

    If you do need a new damper buy this one:

    http://www.damperdudes.net//product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=70
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2012
  19. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I wouldn't condemn the balancer without checking. The best way is to use a piston stop. Make one out of an old sparkplug. Install the piston stop in the #1 cylinder (driver's side, front plug). Rotate the engine gently with a socket and breaker bar until the piston hits the stop. Make a mark on the balancer even with the "0" on the timing tab. Rotate the engine the opposite way until the piston hits the stop again. Make another mark on the balancer. True TDC is halfway between the two marks.
     
  20. thapachuco

    thapachuco Well-Known Member

    Hey there. yea it is definitely off. I am almost 100% sure that it was on the correct plug. Even when i took it in for a radiator flush, the mechanic put his light on the car and it showed at exactly the same issue i was having. So that cleared my doubts about the wrong plug.

    What/where is the "worn advance place" in the distributor? I know the weights are in the distributor. I just had this engine rebuilt 5 years ago, it is time for these things to start going bad?

    the car does not ping at at, no knock either.

    Idle i have it at 800rpm then in drive its about 560rpm as the book describes it. But it is really rough at stop lights but does not bog at acceleration from a stoip.

    ---------- Post added at 09:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

    will I be able to see cracking looking down from the top of the engine or do i remove it and inspect it?

    Will a 350 damper fit on a 340?

    ---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------

    Yes, i came across this process yesterday and plan on doing this next week. thanks for the info.

    The spark plug size is 44mm right? i'm going to buy a stop online today.
     

Share This Page