Well its time for me to assemble the short block on my 430. I already have the total seal rings filed to the correct gaps and instaled onto my pistons, now im getting ready to throw everything on it. I just have a few questions for now, im sure ill have more later, and maybe ill get some pictures on here as we move along. Im think im going to put in only rhe #1 piston to get tdc and degree the cam in, because it will be easier to turn the crank and only one cyllinder will be scuffing the cyllinder walls, and then once its degreed put the rest in. As far as assembly lube goes, where all do i put it? Im sure it goes in the bearings, rod bearings, cam bearings, main bearings, and i heard it goes on the piston skirts/cyllinder walls. What i dont know is do i put it on the wrist pin before putting the rods on the piston? also i was wondering if i had the engine upside down with the cam in, would it hurt anything if i filled the holes that go from the main bearings to the cam bearings with assembly lube or oil (which?)? and how much i should put on (dripping vs a light film) the parts, and how long i can ecpect to let it sit before i should put more on or take some sort of action. thanks
No one? i guess this engine is going to be drowning in engine assembly lube... Anyone know where i can get a single upper main bearing?
I'll tell you how I assem. an engine. I buy a 4 rolls rolls of paper towels and hand cleaner. I don't use hand cleaner with any grit in it when ass. an engine To degree a cam I only install the #1 piston without rings. If the cam needs to be moved you may run into problems and turn the crank many times and clean and lube the wall every 4 or 5 times the piston goes up & down the bore. Then assem. the piston/rod assem.. I use assemb. lube on the rocker shafts, ends of the pushrods, timing chain, cam gear/lobes, all bearings and the top and sides of the lifters. Rotella 15W40 on the valve stems and piston pins. I make sure the pins are lubed from inside and outside of the pistons. I use vasoline for the oil pump and filler up. For the cyl. walls Duralube in a can or WD40. I do not use any assem. lube on the cyl. walls/pistons. I always use a carb, fuel pump and ignition I know works. For instance I'm going to fire up a 600+hp 464 in the spring. I have a new 950hp but I'm using my buddies Holley 650 off a running engine. If using a mechanical fuel pump I move the arm and make sure it sucks at the inlet and shoots out the outlet. My brother bought a new Holley electric pump that did not work. I would even make sure an electric one worked too. You want the engine to fire up right away. I wrecked an engine once from not having any enough pressure, the diaphram was dry rotted. I use a dead blow mallet to install the pistons with a 2 by 4 wrapped in 200 mph tape. Not the mallet with a wood handle. You want the rings to go in all in one shot. I use RTV for the intake gaskets to seal around the water passages. Very important!!! If storing the engine for an extended period of time I prelube every 1/2 crank revolution 4 times with a drill to get the oil everywhwere and seal the intake and ex. ports. I tore down a 300 that sat for 15 years in a garage with no heat and gets extremely damp in the winter. (single digets) No rust on the cyl. walls, just a few rust marks on the crank journals wich I polished out. Rust needs oxygen to make rust. If the intake and ex. won't let any in your all set. Just before fire up I prelube as stated above. Rotate the engine so the balancer is about 10* BTC after the #1 intake valve closes. Then since the balancer is set for #1 piston I put the dist. in and try to set it so the #1 cap terminal will be in line with the rotor, just lined up before term. as the spark happens as soon as the rotor's leading edge is lined up with it. The engine should fire right up. Ray
I forgot to mention I use black RTV on both sides of every gasket (except head gaskets, only for the water passages) until the gasket is sealed and for the installation of the front seal and rear seal (also where the rear seal halves meet) and use oil for the lip that contacts the crank on both and where the rear seal butts. Then the next day torque the engine to spec.. Then after the enine has ran and cooled down torque again along with the head bolts. I've used no retorque gaskets in the past and they loosened up. I would not take a chance. If you have any ?'s just send a PM. Good Luck.:TU: Ray
Ill post here first just for record, if there isnt a response ill PM. I had never heard of making sure the rings get in all in one go, does doing it slowly cause some problems? (i installed one to see how hard it was going to be and did short soft hits, maybe took 15 to get the piston in), i did notice the ring compressor started shifting letting the rings expand, maybe thats what its for? I guess i should try my carb on a friends car before to make sure it works, maybe borrow my friends holley 600. i had to go back and reread this, you used rtv on the head gaskets only around the water ports, right? and looking at my chassis service manual it says to use a center punch to dent up where the rear main seal goes, is this necessary for the neoprene rear seal? thanks for the help
Keep the ring compressor square and get the pistons in on one shot if possible. No RTV on ANY head gasket surface, no dimples needed with the neoprene seal. Devon
No I don't use rtv on the head gaskets. I should have proof read that post. I meant I use rtv on both sides of the intake gaskets for the water ports. Once I had a motor leak so much coolant I thought I had a leaky frost plug. Turned out the intake gasket leaked shooting coolant at the firewall. For that engine I only used tack sealer on the intake gaskets. From then on I put a thin layer of rtv around the ports and a little thicker at the water passages. Never had an issue again. The head gaskets I install dry. I clean and lube the compressor with oil. Then I tighten the ring compressor so the rings will be about inch above the deck when then the piston is sittin in the bore. Then I lightly tap the piston so the ring compressor is contacting the deck all the way around the bore. Then it pound it home with a dead blow mallet and a 2by4 taped up with duct tape. If the piston don't go in one shot you will risk chipping a ring if one gets caught on the deck. Ray
so im guessing its a 2 man job, have someone guide the connecting rod not to hit the crank journal and you hit a home run with the piston? what would you use to guide the rod? mine doesnt have studs, maybe just two long wooden dowels small enough to fit in the bolt holes?
I assume you are using the TA Crower rods. If you use the large end of two inline fuse holders they will slip right into the rod from the top and not pull through. Then use a piece of hose over the other end. Ray
sounds good, i happen to have a few of those lying around, although i was imagining something a little longer. So if i take it slow and tap the rings in one at a time (hammering the piston that hard would just freak me out), making sure they all go in fine, do you think ill be alright or should i just get over it and swing with all my might? thanks
You can cut the hose as long as you like so that you can place the ends over the rod journals. I used lots of assembly lube on everything including the cylinder walls. The stuff is like honey. Like was said before, try and insert the pistons with 1 good blow. Just make sure the compressor is seated squarely on the deck. I hope you cleaned everything as best as you possibly could. Take your time and recheck everything. Steve
I have alot of those hanging around to. They work fine. I used 2 pieces 10-12" of new 5/16 hose. Just line up the rod journal with the bore you are working on. I do it so it is away from the bore. This way when the piston is initially hammered in to it's bore no part of the crank will be in the way of the rod. Then lightly tap it into place making sure the rod does not hit anything. When the piston is ready to be hammered in line up the big end of the rod so it is square and have someone hold the 2 pieces of hose so the rod will not hit any crank throws. The small end of the rod will move which ever way the pressure is from the hoses. Very important. You want all the rings in in one shot. Get a dead blow mallet hammer. I have also used a sledge holding it near the head. You don't have to swing with all your might. Just a good solid blow with some force. If you have an extra block and piston/rings practice a few times. Ray
If he is using the TA Sportsman (1633 series) or any billet rod, it is a capscrew rod.. so there are no rod bolts protruding to worry about. They are pictured below. When you install a piston, regardless of rod type, have the deck surface of the block level with the ground, by adjusting your engine stand.. this will allow the rod to hang free, and keep it off the cylinder wall.. and then turn the crank so it is directly under the hole, at the bottom of the stroke. Also.. do yourself a favor.. buy a tapered sleeve ring compressor.. with the right compressor, you can litterally just take a hammer with a rubber grip, and push them in the holes.. no "beating" required. Maybe a slight tap with the butt of the hammer. You will never regret buying a 4.350 (.038 over) tapered sleeve compressor.. and it will also work with the .030 over stuff. Best $30 or so bucks you can spend.. And your assumption on degreeing the cam in with just number one piston installed is correct.. having all the pistons in just makes it harder to turn over, and increases the likelyhood of inacurate results of cam degreeing. In the pic below, you can see I use two indicator setups, so when I change a cam, the only thing I change is the timing chain position, everything else is set up, to re-verify exact zero of the wheel, and cam position.. JW
The solid tapered ring compressor is the only way to go. Once you try one you'll never use anything else. And Jim's advice is exactly what I do also. I don't use any heavy assy lube on the cyl. walls, just a light spray lube on the walls and piston. Then just firmly push it down. The tapered compressor sits flush on the deck and you never have to worry about it lifting and a ring popping out. I made a couple of them in two bore sizes (4.342" & 4.350") that I commonly use. Would have been less expensive to just buy them. I think the heavy lube on the walls can promote glazing of the cyl. wall and hinder quick ring seating.
Those look really nice, but i already have a ring compressor (adjustable) and plan to use it, ill see if i regret these words later :grin: I like how you put a gauge to get the piston tdc, maybe something ill try. A few extra questions: When using my 9-keyway advance (advancing to 4 degrees), im not sure how it works, but i think: Line up the two dots, check tdc and lobe center and all that fun stuff as if im degreeing, and then take the sprocket off the crank (leaving it in the chain) and splinning the crank sprocket, cam, and chain and sliding it back into the crank keyway marked 4A? So, i think WD-40 is a lightweight oil, so spray down the cyllinder walls (after theyre cleaned) with WD40? Thanks
And now that i got around to putting my cam in, is this about the way the lobe should line up with the cyllinder? its against the rear bumper, timing chain isnt on yet, and it clears on the front. And a picture of my backup engine while im rebuilding the original one. :bglasses:
The lifters are supposed to spin in their bores when the engine is running. By not having the lobes perfectly lined up with the lifter bores this spinning action is induced. Steve
Great, was looking at the engine and noticed this little groove on the main journal... Is this something i should worry about? from what i can tell its not too deep. o No: Thanks
