Thumbs down for TA Performance

Spent almost $1000.00 in top end parts with this company. Had issues with lifters purchased as they continually bled out. Initially thought it might only be 4-6 lifters, not the whole set and had to give up my "first born" to TA Performance for replacements for which I paid shipping. From the start, all "Mike" chose to do was say it was an install issue at which time I put him in touch with the guy working on my car who had 30+ years of engine rebuilding experience. In the end I got my replacement lifters and low and behold they bled out as well with other TA lifters that failed to hold oil. At this point it was decided to go with another lifter vendor. Amazingly the new lifters were fine and my car purred like a kitten. So I called Mike, first thing out of his mouth after hearing my dilemma was I'm not going to do anything about that! I was blown away!! I sit here with 22 lifters I said I would send back for some form of compensation. Basically I was told to "pound sand" and now I'm out a minimum of $100.00 (not including shipping) because Mike said it "ALL MY FAULT". I'm sure this guy will come back with some politically correct way of putting the blame on the install and mechanic so as to save face but think about this. From the start he tried to place blame somewhere else while admitting he had issues with the lifters before. I, not TA, paid the shipping for the replacement lifters which in the end did not solve the problem. Before saying anything to Mike at my expense (3 rip downs) I replaced the lifters with ones from someone else and now everything is fine. Feel free to PM me for more information.

 

Folks, I am going to stand up for myself and TA Performance. Steve Bosch called me today and I could hardly get a word in, he was not interested in even taking with me, just demand. As a matter of fact it was a bit irritating to say the least. I did have a conversation with his builder a few weeks ago which he was a nice man. Steve demanded that I send him 6 lifters. His builder told me he didn't know why Steve wanted 6, all he wanted was 4. Steve called back and wanted 6 regardless so I sent him 6. He agreed to pay shipping and was happy at the time. Now the first lifters were from a bulk order of 1280pcs. The replacement lifters were from another bulk order six to eight months later of 1280pcs. Ironically the same problem surfaces in the same engine, and on top of that he now claims that the rest of the lifters have gone bad. We sell the best lifter I can buy, made by Delphi. I guess I'm in big trouble here because everyone's lifters for the past year must be doing the same thing. I have use all the other brands with many phone calls. When we found these lifters literally the phone calls basically went away. Yes, I mentioned Steve in the past about a customer who had a full set (16) that were bleeding down. What Steve didn't say is that after we had the customer remove his rockers, prime the oil pump till oil came out all the push rods, reinstall the rockers, run the engine. Then have the customer call back and tells us the bleed down problem went away. I have no idea why this worked but the customer was now happy. I guess there must have been air in the system. Anyway short story shorter, Steve as I said earlier wouldn't hardly let me get a word in, started threatening to use this board so I requested him to do just that. Please let everyone know how terrible of a company TA Performance is. I would also add that Steve was never told it was all his fault, never told to pound sand. The thing is he was very unwilling to listen or even finish the conversation. He ended the call before I could finish speaking, yes, he hung up the phone, not me. Steve you seem to be a high strong individual, which you told me you know little to nothing about engines. You rely on your mechanic that works on many engines which is fine. I also have 35+ years of experience with primarily Buick engines, you discounted all that, didn't want to hear it, you hung up. You know best, TA's the bad guy. You'll get a refund, but you didn't stay on the phone long enough to get there. I do have a right to give my opinion on the issue. You called with both barrels cocked. At this point in my life I don't need this.
This topic is closed, I wish you well with your project. Have a nice day.

 

I wonder how many positive testimonials for TA Performance one would find throughout this forum...... I'll wager there's plenty. :TU: :beer

 

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=212367

Steve, I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties. Based on my own experience I have to say that your lack of proper startup and break-in procedure as you described it 9/6 may have been the root cause of your issues. Glad to know it's running as it should now.

Devon

 

Good work Detective Devon

 

You beat me to it.

 

Guys,

I will say is this in closing. I knew from yesterdays conversation that Mike would spin what happened in his favor as he said he would do so. From the first conversation I had with him he tried to put the blame elsewhere and basically treated me like he was doing me a favor by sending me six additional "bad" lifters.
Of course I'm upset, wouldn't you be? Yes I did become agitated yesterday but only after being told TA would do nothing! No offer of compensation was ever made. The mechanic who worked on my car knows more about Buick's than Mike gave him credit for. He was told exactly what was done to break things in. If he thought things were done wrong why would he send anything? If all was OK why would additional lifters fail and why would the new ones from another vendor installed the same way be fine? I only hung up on Mike when he told me TA would do nothing about 3X. What was the point of hearing it's not TA's fault over and over? For those of you who have had good experiences with TA so be it. I tried and I didn't which is why I posted fully knowing that the facts would get twisted to make me look like the BAD GUY. :spank:

 

I have personally had nothing but GREAT experiences with TA and talking to Mike himself..Even Tim was kewl to deal with...hehehe...I about drove them guys and gals nuts there with a new JUNK edelbrock intake that I bought at a local parts store. Unless you have worked retail sales, you have no idea what a salesperson goes thru...just MY thoughts....KUDOS to TA PERF and 99% of the GREAT folks here on V8 Buick:3gears:

 

Every story has 2 sides and 2 people can see the same thing and see something different.

I see both sides as a customer and a business owner.

The customer thinks he was sold junk and the business owner needs to make sure its not somebody trying to stick him with the mistake the customer made.

You would not believe some people. I have seen where somebody will buy a pressure washer use it to clean their deck and house to repaint. Then claim the item is junk and return it for credit at a home improvement box store. It happens with power painters too.

Its bums like this that make it hard for somebody with a real problem.

 

Olive branch. o No:

Unfortunately you have acknowledged an incorrect break-in procedure, so that opened the proverbial "can of worms".

TA is the one remaining parts supplier with a focus on the Buick community. Continuing to disparage TA, at a time when you and your builder have likely contributed to the problem, is futile. We need healthy dialogue to diagnose and solve our problems on this board.

I do hope that things have worked out for you in the end. And maybe, one day, you can comment on how much you like your new cam.

 

Either way I'm still buying from TA. :beers2:

 

You know when you buy in quantiy like that things can happen, I thought this was supposed to be a hobby. If you are going to get all wound up over some lifters you might needs some help. **** HAPPENS Dont worry mike im still gonna buy from you. At least when you call TA you get an AMERICAN.

 

Just for reference in the future, here is a short vid of the first 4 minutes of a proper break in.

Before it ever got to this point, the start of a good break in began in my engine assembly room.

The lifters were installed with just a little oil on the sides, but with the cam break in lube on the bottom. Soaking the lifters in oil, makes it impossible for the cam break in lube to adhere to the bottom of the lifters.

The valvetrain was setup and preloaded/lashed properly.

The oil system was primed

The distributor was installed and timed close enough to start.

The carb was checked for jetting, and set close enough for initial startup.

Then, at the dyno shop, the timing was checked by just turning the engine over briefly, with the ignition system on but no fuel in the carb, so it won't start, until we are ready. But it is verified the timing is close, and the distributor is in correctly.

Then, the carb is filled with fuel, via the electric fuel pumps, the float level is checked, and needle/seat sealing confirmed.

At that point, we go to the vid..


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Now, what's happening here is simple

Immediately the engine is brought up to 2000 rpm

timing is checked and set at 30*, which is where I set all NA engines to start with at break in.

After a quick glance up at the A/F ratio meter in the cell, I see it's running lean, so I do a quick check for vacuum leaks.

No vacuum leak is seen, so the carb is adjusted richer, via the 4 idle mixture screws, and brought to right around 12.5 to 13-1 A/F ratio. Not too rich, and not too lean.

Temps are checked with an non-contact thermometer at the back of each cylinder head, to insure water flow and even warm up.

A small leak on one of the external water lines (this is a filled block engine) is noted, Ron hands me a wrench to tighten a hose end a touch.

At about 3 1/2 minutes in, Ron notices the header primary pipes are glowing, he asks me what compression the motor is.. this one is only 8-1, as it's actually set up for a Supercharger, and because of the low compression, we compensate for inefficient fuel burn in the cylinders, with another 4-6 degrees of timing.

Low compression engines, can glow the pipes, from the excess fuel burning off in the exhaust and headers. It's worst with a STG 2, due to the very short exhaust port.

This is not something I have ever seen in a 10-1 or higher engine.

But you have to notice.. at no time is the engine ever shut down. The higher oil pressure at above idle rpm, and the splash lubrication provided by oil coming off the connecting rods, is all that lubricates the cam, during the critical break in phase. All adjustments and tweaks are made with the engine at that rpm, and two sets of eyes are on it, looking it over.

This was just the first 4 minutes, but the rest of the vid is pretty boring, as it's just another 15 minutes or so of watching it run. Everything need for a good break in, was done either back at the shop, before it was started, and then right after start up.

That first 5 minutes is the most critical time in an engine's life.

Steve,

I wasn't there, and can't comment on the condition or serviceability of the lifters sold to you by TA Performance. But you have to concede here that your start up procedure, as you outlined it, was about as far from correct as it gets.

If you did not prelube the engine, I would expect the lifters would be very noisy, for the first several minutes of running, as the pump fills up the oil filter, and the oil passages, before it even begins to fill the lifters up.

If you did pre-lube the engine right before start up, then typically we see hyd lifters fill up and become quiet, in about 30-45 seconds, at break in rpm.. it would take 3 or 4 times that long, at an idle speed.

But like I said, I won't draw any conclusions, just thought it would be helpful to point out to you, as well as the rest of the folks watching, the correct break in procedures.

Good luck on the car

JW

 

Obviously I touched a nerve here.

It is what it is! Lets move on.

LOL

 

Hey Mike.
My lifters and everything else I purchased from you is working just fine,
Keep up the good work! :TU:

 

Jim,

You should post your break in procedure inside it's own post and make a "sticky"...it's worth doing if you haven't already. :gp:

 

I was just thinking this as I read thru it, awesome stuff Jim, thanks for posting it :TU: !

 

Jim, that is quite the setup you have there... should I ever have the funds to have an engine built.. you sir will the the builder :beer