Terri Schiavo

Discussion in 'Help From Above' started by tdacton, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. YellowLark

    YellowLark Well-Known Member

    It's over, folks. CNN just reported her death.

    Hope we all learned something from this multi-faceted tragedy.

    I, for one, am going to make damned sure my legal papers are in order and that my wishes are well known to my family.
  2. GKMoz

    GKMoz Gary / Moz

    Apparently HE took care of HER alright!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the meaning of taking care of someone !!!!!!!!!! IMHO he's your GOD also you are yet to find out who he is "when you search for me (jesus) with ALL your heart then YOU will find me" :) !! More rethoric (your opinion) my belief Well so much for this thread ! shes gone now a and MOST will go on with their lives not remembering the signicance of such a tragedy as what just took place.You forgot to say IMHO oppinion about tunnel vision? your anger is apparent, ask yourself why you detest OUR oppinions,write them off as rethoric,and your oppinions are the right ones!(sounds like what is said about the religious right :Do No: ) end of my writings,You just don't get it !!! try to find what God has to say not what we say! use the url provided to find what WE already know!! god bless!!
  3. riv2x4

    riv2x4 Well-Known Member

    Gary, once again no answers except more rhetoric about your god. Be very careful about defining my god.

    Why no specific answers Gary? Maybe because you and your god can't answer or is it that by trying to answer you will be shown to be hypocrite? Gary, I'm still waiting for an opinion on the specific questions, not a sermon. How can I detest an opinion you have not displayed.

    May Terri finally rest in peace.

  4. alan

    alan High-tech Dinosaur

    My guess is it's far from over.
  5. GKMoz

    GKMoz Gary / Moz


    I thought I answered the question a while ago! This case is the precedent for down the road. An example might be this The ricco act,It was established for the purpose of organized crime groups! not to long ago a group were convicted on this charge RICCO ACT for protesting abortions,they went to jail and served their time."POINT" this case is a water mark for down the road!! who will interpet the situation in say 5 -10 years from now?? as i said in one of my previous posts GenerationX probably (very scary)This case was based on what Mike said Terry wanted(no written documents)he has alterrior motives for wanting her demise(IHMO opinion) You on the other hand have a dislike for US cramming are religion down your throat!!YES/NO?? Its all been seen many times before and it will get worse(hatred for spiritual things) you try to make it a law thing but it is a spiritual thing!! you completely miss the point we as believers have tried to make! Which was fortold 2,000 years ago(V14)"But the man/woman who isn't christian can't understand and can't accept these thoughts from God,which the holy spirit teaches us.They sound foolish to him,because only those who have the holy spirit within them can understand what the holy spirit means. Others just can't take it in.(V 15) But the spiritual man/woman has insight into everything, and that bothers and baffles the man of the world,who can't understand him at all.How could he? For certainly he has never been one to know the Lords thoughts,or discuss them with him,or to move the hands of God by prayer.But strange as it seems,we christians actually do have within us a portion of the very mind of CHRIST." not my words but straight from the bible -1 corinthians 2 -verses 14-15 look it up! I"m guessing that just infuriates you ! :af: which might prove where you and I are coming from!! Gary
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2005
  6. 79BlueShark

    79BlueShark Well-Known Member

    The capacity for human disillusionment is unlimited.

    Now that the v8site has legions of scientifically ignorant right wing idiots bitching with their personal petty whims about how the universe needs to work, many of whom claim to be Christians ... I thought it might be a good idea to talk about what Christianity might really mean if one wanted to be fundamentalist and accurate about the "Christ' part in Christianity. Sometimes I wonder how I would behave, if I were Christian ...

    If I were a Christian, I'd have to guess that Christ wouldn't continence lying about His Father's breathtakingly beautiful handiwork. I don't think I'd be able to stand by silently while people deceived their fellow Christians and counseled them to disregard His ingenuity and His scientific skill. I wouldn't guess Christ would like folks dissing the fact that God is the most brilliant scientist imaginable, who created an ancient and vast cosmos full of splendors. A Creator who employed complex processes such as evolution, geology, astrophysics, and chemistry, operating over oceans of time, unfolding through countless steps, to produce this glorious Star studded Universe and ourselves, is a God worthy of worship. I would happily point out the caliber of scientist and artist God is, and note how His scientific capability far exceeds the scope of the most gifted intellects among mankind. I'd explain that God can Create however He Chooses to Create. That's God's prerogative, and we're Blessed to be a part it.

    If I were Christian, I would teach my brothers and sisters in Christ to feel honored at being descended from a long line of God's wondrous living creations, and for sharing the amazingly complex biochemical processes those ancestral benefactors endowed us with. I'd praise our evolutionary legacy and I'd thank our Linnean cousins; from the microbes to the primates, for through them God bequeathed unto us the finest instrument and possession we will ever own: Our human body and our human brain.

    If I was a Christian I'd be down on my hands and knees once a day, thanking God for belonging to the Cosmos in all it's resplendent majesty. I'd study every branch of science I could and hunger for more every day. If I were Christian, I'd be teaching biology and chemistry and astronomy in Sunday Schools to eager young Christian children who would learn reverence for those fields of knowledge and treat them as Holy and Divine. They would "ohhh" and "ahh" at the pictures of God's cosmos from powerful telescopes. They would be fascinated with God's intricacies found in a leaf revealed under the microscope. They would find exhilaration looking at the nucleus of a cell and the heart of life's DNA double helix, or the world of the atom; all part of God's infinitely artistic Creation. Rather than trying to deceive people about God's prowess, I'd work to reveal it to them. Because science inspires mankind with precious insight into the mind of the Creator of all that exists. Far from being something to fear, science is the most powerful testimony to the Creator who crafted our natural world.

    If I were Christian I would be filled with pride and wonder that my blood, organs, skin, and hair, are made from the elements cooked inside of ancient stellar furnaces. And I would weep with the glorious joy that I am made of star dust.

    All of this; I'd be shouting from the tops of buildings, in classrooms, at Church, across the radio waves, and through the optical fibers of the Internet, as evidence for God's brilliance and love and beauty.

    If I were a Christian, I'd try my best to honor the teachings of Jesus Christ, and bring his gentle philosophy into the hearts and minds of my fellow man. I'd speak out strongly against violence and hatred of any kind. I'd gently scold the people who associate with gangsters, corruption, or violence. I might hold a grudge secretly inside against those who've hijacked the once noble movement of evangelical Christianity in America, or the teachings of Mohammed in the Quron, to spread hatred and bloodshed if I was a Christian. But I'd try my best to be gentle in my reprimands of those individuals, and explain that no political party, no ideology, no race or nation or creed, solely owns the Glory and Love of Christ. It's freely available, for everyone. It's His gift to us all.

    If I were Christian, I'd have to guess that Christ, who was after all beaten to a bloody pulp and then nailed to a cross to die a horrible, lingering, death, for our sins, wouldn't think very highly of a party, a faction, a group, or a President, that thinks they should be able to legally whisk people off to torture chambers in foreign third world ****-holes run by sadistic barbaric throw backs, with no trial or charges ever held for them! And were I a Christian, I'd have to guess that any true Christian would and absolutely should, be very nervous about being even associated with torture in any way, shape, or form.

    If I were Christian, I'd have to guess that Christ, who himself has spoken one-thousand verses in the New Testament alone mandating that true Christians help the poor, weak, and sick, and reject the rich and corrupt, might not care for the [anti] religious Right or the ramblings of Osama bin Laden. I doubt Christ would think that swearing in his name with your hand on the Bible or a Quron to defend His principles with your life, and then turning around and trampling all over them, would be a good idea if you want to earn God's grace. That's what I'd probably think if I were a Christian.

    If I was a Christian, I'd guess Christ wouldn't really give a hoot about gays or abortion, and would in fact minister healing and grace to those people in God's name, and shower them with His love. There's only one or two verses in the entire Bible even mentioning homosexuals or abortion, as opposed to the thousands by Jesus telling us to help the poor and sick and even those we might not approve of, if we want to honor His Name. So if I was a Christian, I'd also shower gays and abortion doctors and atheists and even violent criminals on death row, with all the love they could stand, and tell them God loved them deeply and forever, no matter what they do or did, and that nothing they can do will ever stop God from loving them dearly.

    If I was a Christian, I'd have to guess that Christ doesn't care what the hell you call yourself, Republican, Democrat, Boy Scout, Muslim, Hindu or even atheist; it's your deeds that count, your actions that matter, and your character that defines you. Good people are identified as good by the good deeds they do, while evil people are identified by doing evil deeds. And if I was a Christian, I'd point out clearly that arguing for the cult like worship of any human being, in any nation, as an inerrant God like leader, praising warfare or terrorism, the repression and bombing of civilians in any country, arguing that torture, murder, and genocide is a good thing, and defending the wealthy and powerful, is completely at odds with what Christ clearly taught. I'm willing to bet in Christ's eyes such actions would be distasteful.
    If I was a Christian, I wouldn't associate with the fringe faction of the religious right, except to tell them God loves them even though they may have gone astray, and they should try to find their way back, that there's always forgiveness and love to be found in Christ. I might even get frustrated with the modern right-wing, if I was a Christian, and lose my temper, tell them they're not acting in God's name, or they they're not acting like a Christian with a Capital C-H-R-I-S-T if they're part of the modern Neo-Christian right wing. If you're in the extremist violent fringe; you're hanging out with posers, thugs, and scum ... I might say in a moment of weakness. If I was a Christian I'd still be human after all, and I wouldn't have the patience or Grace of Jesus at all times, when dealing with liars and fanatics, that He would have.

    See, no matter how you slice it, if you read Christ's words, it's pretty clear he was a raging liberal. The fringe and violent elements in the religious right, which is pretty much the entire body these days, and the Islamic terrorist forces in the middle east, are more of an 'antichrist' kind of political and ideological organization. The Neo-Christians and the Islamofacsists are a group that uses Christ's or Allah's name to hide behind and justify their perverse and violent, UN-God like, ideology and actions. If I were a Christian, I'd have to guess Christ is not impressed by them. That they're not reflecting His desires and counsel. Same for Al Qeada or Hizbellah.

    Maybe it's easy for me to say what I would do IF ... if I was a Christian. Maybe it's much harder than it all sounds. But honestly, what I've written above doesn't sound that hard to do, does it? It's mostly common decency and common courtesy, that we all learned by the time we left kindergarten. I'm already doing a lot of it now. I bet most people are.

    But I'd also have to guess there is one huge difference between Christ and I, even if I were a Christian, in regard to how we think about the indecent, immoral, despicable, behavior, of the Neo-Christian extremists and Islamofascist killers. I think they're depraved and cowardly lunatics, I think they'd benefit enormously from a roundhouse kick up against the side of their heads knocking their teeth loose, or a smart bomb scare near the daycare center their children stay at during the daytime, so that they could really understand how it feels when you kill, bomb, and disfigure, innocent men, women, and children, all over the world. But Christ was a complete pacifist. He wouldn't approve of my inclinations there at all. So, if I were Christian I'd pray to Christ to take that anger away from me, so that I could honor his pacifism, and grace, and emulate it best I could.

    Unlike Christ, I don't care if neo-Christian extremists, or the Taliban, or Al Qaeda disappear from the Planet, and never air their ugly, ignorant ideology again. Very much unlike Christ, I don't care if they drop dead. I think they're utterly worthless trash, an embarrassment to both Earth and humanity and the faith they're cowering behind. Unlike Christ, I don't think I can forgive some of those people. But I'd pray for the strength to try, if I were Christian.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2006
  7. riv2x4

    riv2x4 Well-Known Member

    Gary, you still have not answered my specific questions, just another sermon. I believe in freedom of religious choice, obviously you don't. I don't want to see anybody's religion crammed down anybody's throat. Who said or where did I say I hate spiritual things?

    So do I go out and tell my devote Jewish and Muslim friends to quit their religion now??????

    Gary, you're trying to twist this into a religious fight because you can't or won't discuss it any other way. This is not about religion.

    Excellent post 79BlueShark.

    Gary are you madder that she was allowed to die or that you and Congress and the Florida legislature and the President and the Gov of Florida couldn't prevent it?

    This is a country of man made laws. If you want to live in a theocracy try Iran.

    Still waiting for specific answers, Gary.

  8. GKMoz

    GKMoz Gary / Moz

    WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clyde you have proved my point exactly !!!!! your rancor is exactly the same as that which put Christ on that cross!! where have any christian EVER bombed any towers(al-quaeda) when have christians ever DEMANDED YOU follow their beliefs?? read my post about 1 corithians 2 14-15 it sounds rather familiar to me ! enough already ! where did these posts get SO vicious against the christians who have replied to these posts?? your rant of our/my beliefs is unbelievable! but normal none the less ! read my previous posts If you were a christian you would know of what I speak ! V8 sight is NOT being harrassed by right wingers,This forum while for all is mostly read by people with like minds. this original posted thread has gotten WAY off track,Am I angry with any who dissagree with me?? No! while I see the exact thing I refer too! I am open to your opinion just as I would listen to another believers opinion! and then decide what way that person is going (its called common courtesy) but I do not have to agree with it or get angry because you/whoever expresses their opinion. She is gone and time will tell how it plays out ! I must add this also 2 corinthians 2:15-16 Also 2nd Timothy chapter 3 Look it up? God bless ! ! ! !
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2005
  9. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Hi Guys,

    Well...I've little say but that we "right-winger, BIBLE thumpers" are doing nothing more than witnessing as we are commanded to (once again as I stated previously) called the Great Commission set forth by CHRIST.:Smarty:

    Convincing you of what IS THE TRUTH is not our totally responsiblity. You see, we are to tell you so that the HOLY SPIRIT then can take over to convict your conscience and soul. For a Christian, our responability is only to inform non-believers NOT to save! This action by us relieves us of our responibility set forth. If we do not tell then we will have to give an answer as to why we did not.

    The BIBLE tells that in the LAST DAYS there will be scoffers (those who poke fun or just plain will not listen or be convinced!). If there is not even the least little bit of conscience in you that is even slightly whispering in your head that you better look deeper at you, your life and where it's headed.....BEWARE....you may have slipped far enough that you have now been (as the BIBLE says!) turned over to a reprobate mind. A person that has went that far has lost all hope as he cannot be convinced NO MATTER WHAT!:Smarty:

    Humans send themselves to HELL by their own choice....by NOT accepting JESUS CHRIST as their ONE AND ONLY SAVIOUR...PERIOD!

    I pray that all who read this and are not yet believers LOOK and LOOK HARD....your ENTIRE future depends on it!

    Remember this.....(and you WILL come Judgement Day) when you stand before the LORD as the BIBLE tells us that EVERY knee will bend and EVERY head WILL bow and admit that HE truely IS THE CHRIST. At that point, if anyone has not accepted HIM as their personal saviour HE will say "Depart from me ye worker of iniquity, I NEVER knew you!" and then they will be cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity. Those who turned a deaf-ear to the LORD and his WORD during their life and the chances given to them during that time will experience the same at that time...no amount of begging or pleading will change anything about HIS FINAL judgement over you.

    Please....remember that none of us are guaranteed another second, minute, hour or day of life. The time is now for you do not know when your last breath may be! Your last breath here WILL be your first breath before the LORD. CHRIST's blood shed makes him our intercesor...(our defense) before the Father. All one has to do is claim it and repent. Looking back from HELL, NOTHING will have ever looked simpiler than accepting HIS invitation to eternal life with HIM and the mansion he has prepared for all who do!

    I hope and pray this gets through....to someone...
  10. Floydsbuick

    Floydsbuick Well-Known Member


    Since you've asked Gary for "specific" answer's and he's posted time after time, how about reposting your "specific" questions and I'll give it a shot? Please state what "specific" answers you wanna hear, cause you most definatley don't wanna hear the truth!

    79 BlueShark,

    If you were a Christian you wouldn't have posted such a silly sensless rant. If I were...... Man, thats actually funny. :laugh:
  11. riv2x4

    riv2x4 Well-Known Member


    Thanks for the offer. I've cut and pasted them from my various posts in this thread, so please indulge the choppy format. Obviously they were written before the events of this morning.

    How many courts and reviews does it take to say the Michael has the right to determine HIS wife's future? Has he ever lost in court? What does that tell you about his position?

    Why is it so hard to believe that she did say she did not want to live like this?

    Is it only this case or should feeding tubes never be removed from anyone? If so what is the criteria?

    Death penalty- for or against?

    Would it be different if she was 80 instead of in her 40's, or 70, or 60, or 50 ?

    While you are at it how about this question. What do you think would or should happen to Terri if the feeding tube was restored? Who should care for her, who should decide what medical treatments are appropriate, when would it be right to remove interventions or not treat her? Is is appropriate to amputate limbs if they become infected? Should she be kept alive until she is 70, or 80, or ??

    Why no indignation about the 6 month old baby in Texas that was removed from life support over the parents wishes because they could not pay for the medical care needed to keep him alive. The doctors and hospital decided that additional care was futile, and they had the right to stop the treatment. Gov Bush signed the law in 1999.

    Please show me facts to back up your statements unless they are stated as opinion .

    Looking forward to your response.

  12. skylark

    skylark Well-Known Member

    All the previous is the reason that I cannot get myself to be involved in any sort of religion. Why is there enough religion to incite war, but not enough religion to instill tolerance? I can't understand why some people cannot accept the fact that not everybody is going agree with them. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean you're wrong and vice versa. It's really sad that enemies can be made over religious differences. :( As for Terry Shaivo, may she rest in peace.
  13. GKMoz

    GKMoz Gary / Moz

    Defination Of Religion

    Definition of religion RELIGION = man telling GOD what he/she has done to deserve entrance to HIS heaven!! christian = God I am a sinner and I don't deserve anything but your rath(condemnation) What must i do to enter your heaven? answer from GOD, except(by faith) MY righteous sacrafice for your sin The perfect lamb JESUS read genesis 4: 2 thru 11 the story of Cain(worldly) and Abel (child of faith) As for religion being the cause of many wars I agree ! But religion is not an answer ! the way of faith is the answer that all seek in their heart of hearts (wether they admit it or not) God calls for all his creation to repent, but not all will humble themselves to recieve his FREE forgiveness( actually at GREAT COST) NOT by are doing ! but HIS ! ! ! http://www.bible.gospelcom.net/ God bless ! ! !
  14. Rusty Davenport

    Rusty Davenport Silver Level contributor


    Trey said"All the previous is the reason that I cannot get myself to be involved in any sort of religion" Trey please do not let "religion" keep you from God."Religion" will not save anyone.Hell will be full of religious people,false teachers,and non-believers.I do not intend this to be mean and hope you do not take it that way;but it amazes me how people use the excuse of "someone religious offended me once" as a means to somehow justify to never seach for the truth about God.I am sure in life you have been offended by someone at school but you didn't drop out,you were offended by something that happened at the bank but you still trade with the bank,offended at work but didn't quit your job,offended by something on TV but still watch TV,ect. Religion will do one no good unless they have "true religion" In your seach for true religion one must be careful because many false prophets are gone out into the world so one must try the spirits to see if they are of God. The test that you must try the spirit and teaching by is the test of the gospel of Christ. Galatians1:8 But though we,or an angel from heaven,preach any other gospel unto you,let him be accursed. Please remember that Christ himself warned us that there would be false teachers on earth and that Satan/Lucifer himself was the most beatiful angel in heaven before his fall. SO IF ANYONE CLAIMS TO KNOW SALAVATION OR GOD BY ANY MEANS OTHER THAN THE WORK OF JESUS CHRIST UPON THE CROSS OF CALVERY WHERE HE PAID THE PRICE FOR OUR SINS,BLED,DIED,WAS BURIED AND ROSE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY THERE BY MAKING ATONEMENT FOR HIS PEOPLE THEN DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. The risen savior Jesus Christ is the proof that we have the truth and enturnal life that he alone can give.Myself and other christians cannot save you or make you belive this truth but I know who can JESUS CHRIST!! Jesus said those that preach another gospel are reserved for damnation. Religion and Jesus IS ANOTHER GOPEL,being baptisted and Jesus IS ANOTHER GOSPEL,being circumsized and Jesus IS ANOTHER GOSPEL,good works and Jesus IS ANOTHER GOSPEL,church membership and Jesus IS ANOTHER GOSPEL,although all of these "other gospels" are being or have been taught as means of salavation.you must trust the finished work of Jesus 100% for salavation. If you do that I can be assured that you will become a different person than you were before[not sinless but more aware and sorry over our sins and with a desire to be more holy ] Now I am sure many will label me a lunatic right wing nut for saying that what has happened to Terry Schiavo was wrong.I am not sure what Terry's husband,family,politions,lawyers,and the judges motives were exactly[and we could all discuss that for a long time];but that said I can not believe that EVERYONE would not be disgusted that a innocent woman was denied food and water and allowed to starve to death.Even if you believe she was better off dead I can't understand people not being outraged how she was treated!!!That isn't even done in the case of the death pentalty for murderers. Mark9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name,because ye belong to Christ,verily I say unto you,he shall not lose his reward.42]And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me,it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck,and he were cast in the sea.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2005
  15. custom

    custom Got Kenora?

    As a Christian I thank you. I posted the thread in the "Help from Above" forum asking why we Christians are right here using this site. I still contend that God had a purpose for Terri S' life and that your e-mail is evidence of that. :)
  16. 79BlueShark

    79BlueShark Well-Known Member

    I will post no more


    You are correct, I would have posted some nonsense about how I know exactly what God wants and needs me to do. I tend to follow the famous Nontheists out there, and yes there are more than you think. Here is a few of their ideas.

    Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).
    "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
    In his later years, he came to believe in God, but still was anti-religious in the sense that he rejected organized Christianity.

    Edgar Allan Poe, American writer (1809-1849).
    "No man who ever lived knows any more about the hereafter ... than you and I; and all religion ... is simply evolved out of chicanery, fear, greed, imagination and poetry."
    "The idea of God, infinity, or spirit stands for the possible attempt at an impossible conception."

    Karl Marx, German political philosopher and economist (1818-1883).
    Marx saw religion as "the sigh of the oppressed creature . . . the opium of the people, which made this suffering bearable."

    Robert Green Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer (1833-1899).
    "For ages, a deadly conflict has been waged between a few brave men and women of thought and genius upon the one side, and the great ignorant religious mass on the other. This is the war between Science and Faith. The few have appealed to reason, to honor, to law, to freedom, to the known, and to happiness here in this world. The many have appealed to prejudice, to fear, to miracle, to slavery, to the unknown, and to misery hereafter. The few have said, "Think!" The many have said, "Believe!"

    Albert Einstein, German born American threoretical physicist (1879-1955).
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."

    I am not really sure where to start? I could think of several thousand middle eastern "Hethans" that were killed during the crusades. How about several million Jews? For some reason, Catholics are not eager to claim Hitler. Even today, when I refer to Hitler's Catholicism in conversation it immediately becomes apparent that I have said something "not quite nice," and I am often challenged. Nontheists, I then explain, know that many modern tyrants, whether petty tyrants such as Richard Nixon, or more successful tyrants such as Hitler, have regarded themselves as exemplary Christians, an estimate their followers had no trouble accepting. Hitler's religiosity -- he was a Catholic until his death -- is often glossed over, but it is critical in understanding his motivation.

    As far as demanding me to follow, I can think of several times. I use to live in the "Bible belt", Pensacola, Fl to be precise. Several times I was attacked and I can see no other words to describe it. I was never more offended by the Bible thumbers on the corners in their suits waving the Bible and screaming at the top of their lungs on how people were going to hell. How insulting and rude an attack that was many times given against my children and passengers when I actually had to stop at the light. They thought it was ok to raint and rave and tell my children I was going to hell because I didn't repent. I can think of several other thug tactics used against companies, radio disc jockeys, and wardrobe malfunctions that limit my entertainment freedoms because someone thinks they know God would be offended. I really would like to know how they know that, because we lock up people who actually hear God talk back.

    Actually I think you are, I really don't have resentment or deep seeded ill well towards Christ as you have suggested. In fact I believe everyone has the right to believe in God and have a personal relationship with him. What I do have a problem with is all the people who feel they need to insert themselves into this relationship. These hard liners (Mainly the NeoChristians in this country) feel the need to oppress their views upon all of society. They tend to replace rational thinking with faith. When I call them on it, I get attacked as the above shows people think my views of Christianity are funny. I really didn't see anything funny just an honest comprehension to the text(Bible). Yes I have read it and it bored me to tears, but non the less I have read it. I was even told my thoughts were senseless. They didn't sound senseless, it actually sounded like it was written by someone who actually strives to be informed on the world. I don't believe you can find fault with it. You just don't believe it. But I do like the canned resoponse. You didn't let me down, just as posted within this thread is the quick and decisive move to position it as something to do with God. Did he by chance right this down and mention Terri by name? Maybe he was testing Michael and his resolve to carry out a promise made in love. I could't tell you that, I can understand the science of Medicine and understand she was taken many years ago. I have actually seen the feeding stopped twice at the hospital system I worked at. I can only be greatful Janet didn't wake the high and mighty then, because the family I came in contact with were devestated. I can only imagine the pain they might have experienced with media attention and outside intervention to deal with also. Maybe they would have been angry also.

    It might be fun to start a post and see how we can each explain some of the more famous stories some other day. It is not to joust, but and opportunity to actually understand intellectually the other side's view. I have done my home work since I am usually considered the evil one, what about you?

    The last post here.............Good day.
  17. Floydsbuick

    Floydsbuick Well-Known Member

    Blue Shark,

    So a few famous people denounce God and thats that eh? From the last post I figured you was foolin' with us for fun, now I'm convinced. Your killin' me guy. Very funny stuff. :TU:


    You say " Show me the facts to back up your statements". Specify what statements. Specifics, specifics, specifics. You want us to give em to you. Do likewise. Although I still figure you are trolling here for trouble with zero interest in others opinions. If its something more, please share it with us, cause I really can't figure were you are going with this. I mean.....Terri died today. You and liberal america have scored a huge victory. You won man!!! You should be celebrating!!
  18. 79BlueShark

    79BlueShark Well-Known Member

    I broke my rule

    I can be hired out for parties and Barmitsfa's as I make a mean balloon poodle.
  19. Floydsbuick

    Floydsbuick Well-Known Member

    Of all the folks I've dealt with that have differences of opinion, you are the best! Most jump into name calling and the like. Thanks for coming to this sub forum to discuss these things. :TU: :beer
  20. Gran Sport66

    Gran Sport66 Well-Known Member

    Holy C$%#! Joe! I heard that she cannot eat.
    Where did you hear that Mike Schiavo didn't allow it?
    Forgive me for saying this, but Rush Limbaugh tells more half-truths than full-truths, and Sean Hannity is even worse.
    I know Joe, you may not even listen to them, believe me I have a fairly open mind and you may not even own a radio.
    I do feel sorry for anyone, however, who takes what people like them say as "news" or the truth. And, Bill O'Reilly, he's not looking out for you or me, no matter how many times he says he is. If you don't believe me, take a look at Rush or O'reillys web sites and all the crap they have available to sell you.
    They have a NASCAR-like assortment of crap to sell.
    And one of Rush's "quotes" from his website today is this:
    "With Terri Dead, American Left Can Now Turn Its Attention to Saving Scott Peterson". Ridiculous-I don't know anyone who wants to save Peterson, and if they do, they are misguided, most likely.

    The link that that headline points to had a transcript from Rush's show, and what he says is just unbelievably reprehensible. Here is a quote:

    "RUSH: If you want her to live, why don't you get up and give her some food and water? You know, Buchanan is onto something here that I picked up on in the early stages of this two weeks ago. There did seem to be this unbridled enthusiasm for this woman to die. We know that there was.
    *who had enthusiasm for Terri to die? I don't know anyone. More BS
    Continuing the quote:
    "Catherine Crier is wrong about this. We know that there was an enthusiasm for this woman to die -- and we know why. There are several reasons. Among them, the left in this country is just frightened to death of the Christian right, and they blame the Christian right for all their electoral losses since 1994 and they want to stick it to the Christian right. Anything the Christian right can lose on, the left will be happy about, even if it takes the death of Terri Schiavo to upset the Christian right and cause the Christian right to experience a so-called loss on an issue.
    *He's all but admitting here that the Christian right is in control over issues that maybe they don't deserve control over; our country is not the Christian right VS. everyone else-there are all kinds of gray areas that this kind of polemicism seems to just like to neatly forget about. ANd all liberals are not communist, and we don't all want to ruin the minds of America's children, and we don't want to crush the religious. We do want to keep the religious from throwing religion and morals in our faces, and blaming us, and condemning us. We all live here-for heck's sake Rush IS a junkie (or was, I guess).
    "We also had a number of people protesting down there that were in fact anti-Bush, members of the Communist Youth League or some such thing, and they're out there eagerly hoping that Bush loses this because he was on the side of Terri Schiavo living.
    *the communist youth league? I have no reason to believe that he's actually telling the truth on this-and he seems to couch the statement in plausable deniability.

    "So it may be a thin line. There may not have been that many people eager for her to die, but there were that many people that were eager for the Christian right and Bush to lose. Of course, the outcome is the same: Terri Schiavo dies. They're asking to suspend quite a lot of reality by saying, "We didn't have any enthusiasm for her to die," but that was the end result of these rulings. That was the end result of what these courts decided. All of these courts decided, "This woman's gotta die and nobody can give her any sustenance whatsoever," and there were people that supported that, and they did so under the guise of supporting the rule of law or supporting federalism or not supporting federalism or what have you. But it is plain as day what happened here: The United States government ordered the starvation of an innocent citizen who was not dying. "

    *more ramblings that I don't think can be taken seriously; no one wanted Terri to die, they wanted her to have some peace, and the courts ruled over and over that it was reasonable to conclude that Terri herself wanted a different outcome than what her parents (and those who I think very selfishly used her cause-by all definitions the wrong battle) wanted-remember, Rush does or did have a pretty large drug problem, so ask yourself what fuels his thinking and what he says about any of this stuff?
    Now come on, someone who is doing you a favor and telling it straight doesn't need to give anyone who feels differently such a hard time, or slant their coverage of the news to always slight Democrats/liberals/what have you.

    Really, I think many of you are taking the wrong ideas from all of this. The link near the beginning of this thread:
    which is the report commissioned by the Florida government, and the Governor, is the history of Terri's case. It makes this case very plain-the law was on the side of letting her go, because her condition was unreasonably dire. She couldn't even swallow by herself without risk of getting sick or suffocating.
    And she had aggressive therapy for years at the start of this ordeal, with absolutely NO positive results. She was NOT responsive to any stimulation in any MEASURABLE way, regardless of what people have said in the media, regardless of what you may have seen in video on TV. Read this report, which, again, was done for the State of Florida and the Governor. It was produced by a "special" guardian for Terri, appointed to determine Terri's best interest, independent from the spouse, family and state (with a latin legal title that I can't translate) that worked on it for a full month (it was only a month because it was commissioned due to the State returning a feeding tube that had been ordered removed, for the second time).

    If you had a spouse that you knew was beyond help, because many or at least any doctor who saw Terri seemed to think that she was in this condition-it was very unlikely she would ever have a change in her condition for the better-if that was someone you had loved, and were married to, if after fifteen years there was no reason to think any differently about the situation, what would you want to happen? Just let the wretched, wrecked human shell be "looked after" and fed by a tube? Especially if you knew that person as a vital, endearing woman that everyone wanted to be around, when they were healthy-it would be hell, simply hell. And you wouldn't be able to determine for certain whether Terri or your loved one was also going through hell. This is the condition Terri was in.

    The grandstanding of the religious zealots, and "moralistic" politicians in this case is disgusting. I mean, Jeb Bush should have read this report on Terri's case and condition, and should have been intimate with the details. Yet he persisted in prolonging the whole thing.

    I wouldn't want anyone to die before their time, but this woman had been in limbo, and KEPT alive. 30 years ago she would not have survived what she has over the last 15. There is a reason for it. It is the moralist politicians and others who force unreasonable circumstances on everyone, when they are allowed to shout the loudest.
    Thinnk about it, there are no shows that are available all over the country which spend 90% of their time trying to denounce Republicans and conservatives. NONE. Certainly none that have any considerable stature in the debate of issues that are important to us all as citizens of the USA
    So called "liberal" media tends to tell the news like it is, and certain citizens are hoodwinked into thinking that the "liberal" media is evil. Technically it doesn't exist as the Rush's and Hannity's would like you to believe.
    Think about this also, just as two examples-who is making the most money from the war? (Halliburton-incredibly, and there seems to be quite a lot of evidence that they are wasting gigantic sums of yours and my money doing it).
    All of this is really pretty incredible to me, the one side makes up stories, and hardly ever does what they say they will, and skirts the laws at every chance.
    The other side is painted as evil, and tries to follow the rules, and gets crushed by the "right" media.

    The public face of the American culture-especially politics, is a disgrace.
    You know they want to cut medicare, and veterans benefits?
    If you don't know, you should find out. But Rush and Sean Hannity won't tell you.

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