Discussion in 'Help From Above' started by tdacton, Mar 23, 2005.
PERFECTLY SAID!!! :TU:
I Agree!!! :tu:
Are you even possibly coherant enough to realize that with a statement such as your quoted one above, that you WILL share in Terri's blood being on your hands every bit as much as her husband and judges will??
As sure as the sun will set tonight there is THE Judgement coming....
MMMmmm.....do you think the Social Security problem would be as monumental as it is if those 30 million + babies had not been legally murdered since Roe vs Wade took place? Not to mention the possible AIDS researcher or Cancer researcher...or the list could go on...who could have possibly been sent to this earth by the LORD with the cure for that ailment/disease.o No:
Think about it...WHO may have been one of those 10's of million counting? Who's been gotten rid of today?
It all starts with rationalizing the smallest of wrongs (sins) and convincing ourselves it's Ok or that it's not really THAT wrong. Then gradually we've found ways to move up that "chain" to bigger and bigger sins that just not-that-many-years-ago would not even be thought of to even need to be brought before ANY judge for debate.
Life means less and less everyday in this world we live in....
I'm sorry I didn't respond to your post the way you wanted. Have you looked at the report by Jay Wolfson, Terri's guardian at law when Terri's law was passed by the state of Florida? Didn't think so. Most of your assumptions would be answered by the FACTS presented there. The facts of the case are not in dispute here. The parents, in the first suit, stipulated that she was in a PVS. What death benefit? How much money is he getting? Didn't he turn down millions to walk away?
How many courts and reviews does it take to say the Michael has the right to determine HIS wife's future? Has he ever lost in court? What does that tell you about his position?
Why is it so hard to believe that she did say she did not want to live like this?
Is it only this case or should feeding tubes never be removed from anyone? If so what is the criteria?
Death penalty- for or against?
Show me facts to back up your statements, not opinion from Fox.
I'm not hiding anywhere.
As far as I'n concerned Fox is anything but fair and balanced.
Even though a longtime poster to this board, I have avoided this forum. I have dozens of posts on my favorite boating board about Terri Schiavo.
Once a Catholic and a hawkish Republican, I have been a secularist and a Democrat for the past 25 years, so I have a split pro-choice-but-otherwise-conservative philosophy. "Liberal Republicans" were the norm when and where I grew up. Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush was one and also was my Senator, we can thank him that birth control is legal.
IMHO, what I have been hearing and seeing is a stream of lies and distortions by Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage and others to inflame their "pro-life" base.
The facts are that this has been the most litigated case in FL history. The Schindlers have had OVER 40 court cases....and lost EVERY one.
Even before "conservative Republican" judges. That's all you should need to know. Do you really want some screaming street preacher from Kansas barging into your loved one's hospital room and saying that he knows best what actions must be taken? Tom Delay in 1988 didn't ask for that and neither should any of us.
The backlash will be evident in Republican losses in 2006 and loss of the White House in 2008. W has lost 14 Gallup points since his interference - he's now the most disapproved he's ever been (57%).
It says just what the BIBLE says will happen in The Last Days.....Good (right) will be taken for bad and bad (wrong) will be taken for right! Our courts and sorry excuses for judges may be able to "interpret" the law as they see fit now but the LORD is THE law and he's the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever! What's wrong in the LORD's eyes has always been wrong and WILL ALWAYS be wrong...PERIOD. The BIBLE clearly lists those things GOD hates and one in that list specifically is noted as the shedding of innocent blood (this also goes for the 30 millon PLUS babies aborted too!).
So when have any of us made a statement that years later we would disagree with because of our lack of wisdom in our youth? How many young people do you know who truely value life? Practically every one that you see has the "invincible/bulletproof" mentality and will foolishly throw their own life away for that next high.
When exactly did Terri become a common everyday murderer sitting on death-row? To even make a feeble attempt at putting this in the same catagory as the death penalty is mindless chatter. The death penatly is Biblically justified plain and simple.....also referred to as "payment for shedding innocent blood".
Life is precious, a gift from the LORD for he knew you before you were even in your mother's womb.
Remember the LORD destroyed this world once with the flood during Noah's generation because of what the people had become. The BIBLE also tells that The Last Days will be as the days of Noah. While he promised he would never again destroy us with another flood that doesn't make our world any less susceptible to his wrath. That day is approching more and more rapidly. The intelligence that has exploded in the last century has made us stupid and errogant enough to explain HIM and HIS existance away and in return relieves us of HIS absolutes.:Smarty:
All due respects, I'm sure that you are a very good and decent man....But,
Bible Thumpers like yourself who deny the power of human reason are the reason I avoid this forum.
Its very frustrating for a secularist to even attempt to debate with someone as dogmatic as yourself. I guess if "God is on your side" you're never wrong.
I have no affinity for Islam, but I have read the Q'uran and just had fun PO'ing folks like yourself on another board by quoting Muslim precepts that sound exactly like yours - except they denounce Christianity (not Jesus, whom they revere, just Christians) . It stings when they realize that they are not the only ones claiming to be God's elect.
So, enjoy the crest of your Christian Right/anti-choice 2004 election. The winds of change are already starting to blow back against your kind and towards toleration and separation of politics and religion.
You're smokin' something right?
You bible-thumpers really out there you know? :spank: Judgement day for him? Really??? ou: So god is just up there sittin on his lil' cloud wanting this poor SHELL of a woman to remain the way she is for, what another 15, 20, 30 years. o No: THAT IS OBSCENE !!!! :af: And I would let him know if he asked my opinion. BTW please don't send any pm's saying you'll pray for me over this issue. I don't need your help on this. :moonu: When I die, if there is something after this life, I will look Jesus, Mohammad, Budda, Ganesh, Alla or Bugs Bunny IN THE EYE to look at my lifes record. I'm really not worried. I'm a good human being, care about others and have more plusses than minuses in my book. Besides there's always the deathbed conversion. :Smarty:
P.S. I have YET to here from any one here who says "keep me plugged in,keep air pumpingin my lungs and leve my feeding tube in and the drip in my arm". " I want my body to be completely dependent on machines even though my brain is soup,my body has atrophied even though my "soul" has surely departed from this earthly plane. "Bugs be with you- Amen".
I personally would rather live as if there is a GOD and find out there isnt than to live as if there isnt and find out there is.
http://www.v8buick.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=529600 The only difference between us bible thumpers and those who aren't is quite obvious!! we are intolerant and you secularists and do gooders are not! in YOUR opinions ! same story over and over we are intolerant and you people know how we should think about life!! like you do! YES/NO ?? sounds kinda like what you say about us! o No: This won't be the first MISTAKE that judges and lawyers have made in history,or religious people (sanhedrin-pharisees/Pilate ) made the same mistake 2,000 years ago innocent blood for their opinions were the right ones YES/NO ?? like Mike said better to know him than NOT! ! ! It does no good to argue over this unforunate women ! men will do as the lord says" Good will be called evil and evil will be called good" its gonna happen,loss of natural affection(abortion) taking of innocent life(euthanasia) lovers of self(ME FIRST) back biters(gossips) slanderers(liars) its been this way since the fall,But getting much worse in these last days. GOD BLESS P.S. I"ve never actually thumped a bible my entire time as a christian ! thats a demeaning term used by that the GREAT(fair/accurate) media we have in this country
I agree with you YellowLark. I'm still waiting for facts not rhetoric. What about the other questions, Is it only this case or should feeding tubes never be removed from anyone? If so what is the criteria?
I never equated her with an death row inmate, I'm looking for responses to that question from the "she should be saved" camp. I wonder if they feel her life has more value that that of a condemned man.
So I guess the FACT her husband would not allow any type of drugs to be administered to her and she got better dispite him. Dont forget the FACT that when he found out it was time to start rehab he denied her treatment and stated "when is this bitch going to die!!!" I guess the FACT that the ambulance company called the police because the supposed accident looked like attempted murder!!
How about the fact she was not on life support only needed to be FED by a tube. Take away food from anyone they will die .........duh!!!! thats a no brainer. I guess the FACT she is not in a coma with no brain waves does nothing for you. I guess the FACT she would have been cared for by the parents at their expence was no factor. I guess the FACT the husband could really care less he wants another wife and already has 2 kids from that woman. I guess the signed affidavids that were written about Michael Shivo stating that he had asked the nurses for dates right after Terry was put in the hospital dont mean anything either.
And for a woman that was supposedly just going to die has lasted 10 days without food or water, I guess she was in better shape than she was given credit for.
And also noone on this issue will agree except to one side or another. Either you believe in LIFE or you beleive in Death. I heard on the news these words
"She will not recover fully anyway" That scares me, and since politicians and lobbists will take that and run a mile with it, I predict that ANYONE who may not recover fully may be euthinized. That will include mentally retarded and elderly. Time will tell.......... you will see.
Your so-called "FACTS" have all been presented in court.
In some 35 plus court hearings, they were about not judged persuasive to win ANY of the Schindler's pleadings.
The real facts will be out soon enough. From the autopsy that Michael Schiavo has requested. If the facts show her brain to be mush, and that she could not have been cognizant as her parents have insisted, and she does not have broken bones, then Mike Schiavo will be owed a huge apology by the Bushes, Frist, Delay, Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Mike Garrison, Kerry S., etc., etc.
To deny anybody food in order to kill them is unacceptable.
As for doing an autopsy, that's pointless at this point in time. He's just doing that b/c Terri's parents wouldn't want that. What's that going to prove anyway? I doubt if they can prove foul play (like anything could be done to this guy anyhow). He's on a power trip.......whatever the parents want he is doing the exact opposite. Like having her cremated against the wishes of her parents. I don't think this guy has ever grown up........he's acting like a spoiled child. As far as I'm concerned, when he cheated on her he was no longer looking out for her best interests and his guardianship should have been revoked. :bglasses:
Has anybody read Jay Wolfson's report? It's about 38 pages long and a summary of all 30,000 pages of official documentation in this case.
Would it be different if she was 80 instead of in her 40's, or 70, or 60, or 50 ?
I'm still waiting for the answer to the question, Is it only this case or should feeding tubes never be removed from anyone? If so what is the criteria?
Her parents during a trial in 2000 that even if Terri had asked them to remove the tube they would not. I find it interesting that the parents say she is responding even though she hasn't responded in 15 years.
There are many difficult questions that this situation bring to the table. Dealing with your own mortality maybe the most difficult thing we do.
This case is all about Who lives, Who dies, and Who decides.
Who's Jay Wolfson?
And you're exactly right, it is all about who lives, who dies, and who decides. Isn't that supposed to be Gods choice? .........And don't give me any crap about letting him decide that after she is starved to death....as human beings it is our moral responsibility to care for our sick and preserve life.
I don't live in Florida (nor would I want to) and I'm not related to anybody in this case, all I can judge is the facts that I hear about on the news. It seems illogical to me that so many people would come forward with their stories of how she has been mistreated and abused if it weren't true. It's truly scary to me the things that are happening in my lifetime and being called the right thing to do. It just doesn't make any sense to me. ou:
Go see my posts, #13 and #45 in this thread about who he is and what his report is all about. There is a link in post #13 to the report.
Joe, again I ask you, Is it only this case that the feeding tube should not be removed or in all cases?
The biggest lesson from the Schiavo case and it is one that must be sent to as many people as possible is this: The courts are a mess and need to be reformed. Judges should be appointed who believe not only in the Constitution, but also that our rights are endowed from outside the state. Fundamental rights are not granted or denied by judges who create and eliminate them at will.
Had Terri Schiavo been pregnant and wanted to abort, her husband would have no legal say in the matter, but he has ultimate power over her life and death. Isn't it legally inconsistent that courts may no longer sentence 17-year-old killers to death, but Terri Schiavo, who has injured no one, has been sentenced to death by the courts?
Here is a political-moral-ethical question worthy of continued debate. That debate must not die with Terri Schiavo. If it goes on, she will have taught many a valuable lesson and her life will have made an important contribution to the nation and to others in the future who will share her condition, but not necessarily her fate.
I agree with you to a point. It is not the judges, but the laws in place. All that ALL the judges have done is upheld the laws as written. There was not a single overturned ruling. If you don't like the laws, get the legislatures to change them in a constitutional way.
I must strongly disagree with the statement that Terri was sentenced to death. As far as I know she was never convicted of a capitol crime in Florida and the State of Florida did not order and carryout her death. The Florida courts have found that she did not want to live in this condition. All that the courts have done is allow HER wishes to be followed.
We may disagree about how her wishes may have been let known.
You are correct that this terrible situation will bring about further discussion about end of life care and what people want for themselves.