Its a bit darker but that is probably because it wasn't sandblasted after it was cast, a little bit of sandblasting would brighten that thing right up. Then stamp TA on it and tada, Instant TA cover! I don't know about anyone else, but for $499, I would want TA cast in that cover, NOT stamped on it!
Well here's a side by side picture. First thing I see is the TA cover has some dowels to positively locate the water pump. Looks like you get them to install on the Proform cover. I also see some casting marks inside the water pump cavity. I think there are things we can't see that make the biggest differences.
If I see the letters TA that are CAST into the cover, well then I will be more likely to believe it is not the same casting as the Proform cover. So they left the dowels out, big deal, TA put them in so they can say it is "Made In USA", they don't say it was cast in USA and machined here. Just like new cars today, just about every part on some new cars today are made overseas but they are assembled here so they can put that Made In USA label on it! The 2 look very similar, like I said, sandblast the Proform and then stamp what TA stamps on their covers and TADA, its a TA cover now!
Timing mark tab is totally different, some extra casting marks visible on the proforma that aren't there on the TA, and multiple other differences. I agree a TA stamping would be cool (and wouldn't they want the free advertising??), but Derek, take your tinfoil hat off a sec, that's not a sandblasted proform cover. Of course they're going to look "similar", they're the same basic part for the same engine and one is a low cost knock off of the other. It'd be kinda strange if they didn't look "similar".
I have no personal experience using either of these covers, but regarding the casting quality debate, I have found significant differences in quality levels and accuracy/precision among manufacturers of covers(and other engine parts) for other engines. It seems very unlikely to me that Proform and TA Performance are using the same exact casting, with only minor machining or other differences after the fact. For $500 I would definitely like to know exactly what the differences are and would like to know where the casting is made and who by, but I would not assume it shares anything in common with the Proform cover except the engines it is intended to be used on. Even material differences in the same mold can make a huge difference in the quality of the finished product. I would consider it very likely that the Proform cover uses a cheaper alloy to start with, which could easily affect longevity, strength, wear resistance and even the machining tolerances/surface finish quality that can even be achieved in the first place. Wouldn't make much difference on a simple cover, but it sure can on a critical wear part like this on a Buick that contains the heart of the engine. I think it's perfectly valid to ask these questions and compare the two products, and I certainly would before I would spend $500 on one. But I don't think it's wise to just assume "parts is parts", or to assume that one is necessarily better than the other because of surface appearance of company of origin. Many of Summit Racing's white box parts are simply reboxed name brands at a lower price. For example, the Summit oil pump I just installed in a GM 5.3L is a reboxed Melling. Very good quality pump. Exact same part but with only two pickup tube o-ring options instead of four, but in a different box and at a lower price than the Melling branded part. However, some other Summit branded parts are not reboxed name brands, but rather cheaper Chinese "copies" of name brand parts. So it varies a lot out there, and the only way to know for sure is to truly compare the two options, and hopefully know the backstory behind them.
A quick question though.. TA only lists a bare cover on their website, but the cover pictured above appears to have arrived already assembled with the oil pump.. is that something else that TA offers as well, but they just don't list it on their site? Or did you have a TA cover sent off to someone else to build the pump?
Yes, TA sets up the pump for you with the booster plate, new cover and adjustable regulator. It carries a separate part number. The cover alone is TA1531B The cover and pump set up, TA1533A. They call it a "High Performance Oil Pump Assembly". Page 77 in the catalog.
This brings up a question.. the TA cover doesn't go through a forging process, does it? Just off the top of my head, the quickest way to spot a cast vs. forged crank is that the numbers are always cast into a cast crank, whereas the numbers are stamped into a forged crank. Perhaps there is a reason why TA stamps their covers, rather than casts the logo in? Just another guess here, but could they possibly be using original GM molds? I don't know enough about them, but I'm thinking there could be several reasons why they stamp it instead of casting it in.
The cover ------------- 499.00-- TA 1531B The pump cover--------89.95---TA1512C Oil pump shim kit------20.59---TA1704 Booster plate------------39.95---TA1510A Oil Pump gears----------34.95---TA 1508 Adjustable Regulator---19.95---TA1502 ____________________ --------------------------704.39 Corrected, 789.00. Could be price increases on the components as well.
Yep, on Monday when I ordered Tim said $789, I asked what happened to $766, he said prices on some components recently went up and they haven't been reflected on the literature yet. At that point, what's $23....
Maybe a member who lives near the TA facility can go over and ask for a tour to see where the covers are actually made and verify they're not Chinese restmps and put this debate to bed once and for all! I'm sure TA would be willing to do so to promote their reputation.
I'm pretty sure Mike does that all the time for anyone who asks. I bet there are a number of guys who have had tours of TAP. Maybe someone who has will see this and post. I do not think for even a second that TA sources their covers from overseas. I do not think like that.
"tinfoil hat" LOL! Does the timing mark look different because of the angle of the picture or because its casted differently? I think its the angle of the picture. If the Proform is a "copy" of the TA cover, they used the TA cover to make the mold so it should be very, very close to the same(if they aren't actually the same cover?). So as far as one cover not having a "casting mark" that the other doesn't have, still doesn't mean they're not the same casting if those areas are reworked before sandblasting it. Like I said, with a stamp set and a sandblaster the Proform cover can be made into a TA cover. Would be nice to buy an expensive aftermarket part and know for sure it is what it claims to be, like their intakes that have TA Performance CAST into them, not stamped. For example, if I grind Edelbrock off of their BBB intake and stamp it with a TA, does that make it a TA intake now?
That's the deal, TA doesn't do any of their own castings, ALL of them are farmed out. So which ones are farmed out to where? Why is the supposedly made here cover the only one of those castings that are stamped without the TA logo cast into it? The sbb 350 cover is an import with no cast in logo either, why is it better to buy one of those from TA?
Well in all honesty I'm pretty sure my cover is a Proform given the fact that is darker in color but it functions as it should and I've got no known issues with it so on the motor it will stay. If they are in fact the same cast (just different color) then they will function the same. But so many guys on here swear by the TA over the Proform so something's got to be better/different?
That's what I'm trying to figure out, and why would the TA cover only be stamped instead of have a cast on logo?
I just dispatched an email over to TA Performance asking for more information about their covers, with a link to this thread. Hopefully I/we will hear back soon!
