Watched this show on PBS and it was very interesting. Read the whole story HERE, or check out This PBS Search Be careful out there...
I always found that most rollovers are from people that don't know how to drive. Yeah I know there are exceptions unavoidable quick turns from other brainless drivers, animals, pedestrians, etc. What I find quite interesting back in the Northeast on a rainy day you find most SUV drivers cruising about 15 miles per hour below the limit on the highways and in the passing lane without moving over. Then in the snow you can see them flying about over the speedlimit in the fast lane. I once asked an owner why do they tend to travel fast in the snow and not the rain...Answer are you ready for this highly intelligent answer..."the rain is slippery where as they get traction in the snow." :laugh: hmmm snow traction, I always thought snow is like frozen water (rain) or ice? So the end result every winter on my way to work I always get to see an SUV off the road on its roof. Because these brain dead cell talking make-up doing mutant drivers believe everything they see in a TV commercial and when it's time to break hard and avoid a situation they just either brake hard thinking "they have good traction" or turn sharply, oversteering thus doing the rollover routine. This is mainly again because they exceed the limits of their own driving abilities, thinking the SUV can do it all, which ends up endangering all of us. THis is primarily the reason the insurance rates are climbing on SUV's, because as we all know when they hit another car, more than likely they cause injuries. Meanwhile the rest of us just have to keep a sharp eye out so they don't crash into us. Just my pennies worth here. Rick Martinez
Back in the mid 80s I bought my first 4x4, a 78 Ford Bronco. The day I brought it home my Dad came out and looked at it . He made 2 statements the first one was nice truck. The second statement should be tattooed on the forehead of every SUV owner so they dont forget "Remember one thing in the snow itll go like hell but it stops just like everything else. Words to literally live by. Dan
Suvs Most people think since there suv gets so much traction starting off, that it will stop the same, apparently overlooking some minor physics. JP:blast: :blast:
ummmm Rick....ask me what I drive!! :laugh: Renee Moore 70 GS 455 12.03 @ 114 00 GMC Jimmy 4x4 how you like me now!!!!! :Brow: :laugh:
Insurance rates Rick Just a quick note about insurance rates. My Suburban is classified as a "Sportwagon" according to the ins carrier. If it says sport, you will pay. Also, I don't have a cell phone. but I've seen eactly what you are talking about.:eek2: Too many idiots out there. I've always listened to my Dad, who told me that a four wheel drive will "Get you twice as far and twice as stuck." But I do all that off road and that is where the fun really is. and no danger of hurting innocents.:TU: By the way, I wish the "Superban" were a sportwagon, although it wouldn't be near as much fun on the trails.:laugh:
IMHO It really boils down to driver error in most cases. Overreacting, then over correcting, using brakes when you should hit the accelerater and vise-versa. One thing I noticed about the Ford Explorers that were in the news last year, is that the rear end looks to be to softly sprung. Watch one make a turn, the rear squats quite a bit, IE: When making a right turn, the left rear appears to sink pretty far and the right front lifts. This could be big trouble if you need to make an emergency manuever. For Ford to place the blame soley on Firestone they should explian why it is that few GM and Chrysler SUV's have rolled compared to Fords? Just my thoughts.
Very interesting Dale. The program discussed this exact point. it boiled down to a large Ford lobbiest group getting congress' ear. Firestone unfortunately was blindsided by this 'political action' on Ford's part and had nobody to back them.
I agree as I live in Decatur, IL, the city that is really most affected by the whole mess as it was our local Firestone plant that took the brunt of the blame and now it's doors are closed. I have both family and friends seriously affected by this whole mess and the worst part is that the majority of the failed tires had Decatur's plant number stamped on them but everyone overlooked the fact (especially the media!) that many of the molds had been shipped to the Akron,OH plant. The fact of the matter is that the Decatur plant was one of the oldest Firestone plants and needed upgrades as it was an old WWII tank maunufacturing facility. With all this being what it was, it was easiest for them to keep their mouth's shut, solely blame the Decatur plant and close it down. That way Bridgestone/Firestone would somewhat save face by eliminating the "offending plant" (at least in some outward appearances) and most importantly save the renovation $$$ that the Decatur plant was in need of. Some 2000 workers have lost their good paying jobs and almost directly after that happened ZEXEL (another Japanese owned automotive A/C manufacturing facility) announced they would be closing ALL their American plants as the owners decided that they would transfer all manufacturing back to "the home-land" as this was perfect timing cause their American government incentives had expired. "Wouldn't want to start paying the same taxes everyone elses subject to, that would cut into profits!" Now here's a really good part of this story......our local plant was full of already made A/C parts just needing assembling but the Japanese decided since Decatur workers "had a lousey reputation" from the whole Explorer/Firestone ordeal, that all those parts were probably defective in one way or another and were ALL scrapped!! This comes straight from a couple of my buddies that worked there.... I apologize for being so long-winded about this.......
4X4 warnings I have been driving 4X4 pick-ups for a number of years (pre SUV craze). Every truck I have ever owned has a clear warning on the driver sunvisor warning the owner of the high center of gravity and un-passenger car handling characteristics. Serious injury or death may occur! (How much plainer can they make it) The particular brand I like has always had a fairly slow turning steering box. I think I would have a fairly hard time flipping them in stock trim. (unless I drove like a moron)o No: BTW - I think anti-lock brakes suck. I've been rear ended 2x in the last year with aholes with antilocks. My stock, 15 year old four-piston front calipers and rear drums have saved my bacon more than I can recall. IMO - Natural Selection at workou:
Re: 4X4 warnings I must say, both have their place. My 94 Explorer has 4 wheel antilock and the braking is absolutely outstanding. I have missed cars, dogs and countless other obstacles not being where they should be over the years which would have otherwise been destroyed or killed. They are amazing in the rain and on dry pavement. On the other hand, in the snow, I would much prefer non antilock brakes because I learned to pump the brakes very effectively growing up and the antilocks by their very nature will not lock up causing the stopping distance in snow to be way too long, much longer than it would be with the conventional pump method with non antilock.
Car & Driver magazine had an article that they did about the Ford Explorers during the peak of the frenzy. They bought a used Explorer (same year as the majority involved in roll-overs) and outfitted it with a rollcage and safety harness & put a special dump valve on the right rear tire (same tire as the majority involved in roll-overs). The dump valve was remote controlled & would deflate the tire almost instanteously (to simulate a blow-out). They tried it at various highway speeds and the amazing thing was.....they never lost control of the vehicle & it never came close to rolling! The driver did not know when the tire would deflate since it was remotely controlled. They even tried braking & turning after it deflated & even tried it with no hands (at the moment of deflation). Still, they could not get it to go out of control & roll. I believe their conclusion was that most roll-overs were caused by driver error
"Da wife" rolled ours at about 50MPH about 18 months ago doing something dumb (looked to the back seat to find out why the boy was upset). Ours was/is a Lexus. All I can say is that she and he received nary a scratch - damn safe - as long as you keep it on the wheels. So I bought another one before the end of the week - put a muzzle on the boy. We take it to the snow on a very frequent basis (assuming it's winter). This is where I see my favorite stupid driving. Last season just as I explained to the wife that were I to brake hard we'd never stop, some idiot doing 30 more MPH zipped past and careened into the mountain, nearly rolled, and crossed back across all three lanes. Idiot got out and threw his shorts away.
I still love ya Renee , The point in a sarcastic funny way was to stress that there are a lot of people out there that do not know how to drive. I am not referring to this Board or normal accidental mistakes, as they do occur with the law of averages regardless of what your driving, or trucks that are designed poorly like the Ford Explorer problems. What I am referring to are the people that just don't know how to drive and don't care to learn all they care about is getting to point B from point A, now place them inside a 3 ton truck and watch out:shock: Renee I have no doubt that you know how to drive....well at least in a straight line :Brow: In the years that I was a patrol cop in the Bronx (prior to the Detective stuff) I have witnessed first hand some real brainless moves made not only by women but men also. Some of them would even qualify for the top ten stupid dog tricks. Unfortunately we pay for their mistakes with higher insurance rates. Rick
Rick....I accept your apology! :grin: :laugh: :laugh: Still love ya buddy!! :beer :Brow: ps. I can't get my smilie page to open or I'd have a kissing smilie for ya!
I saw that same special. The driver barely had his hands on the wheel, just to show how straight the truck tracked. They did it at 3 different speeds. The final speed was 70 mph and the driver just had to fingertip the wheel to keep control. My wife had a blowout on the highway with the Explorer too and she said at no time did she ever have to fight the truck. What it boils down to is this. You can't drive these trucks like most of the jack offs around where I live, because you will shorten your life expectancy, as well as others around you. I have never in my 40 years seen more tailgating by trucks and even tractor trailors as I do now. It's way out of hand. It's amazing how nobody gives a second thought to what would happen if the car in front of then locks em up. Pure stupidity. It's driving like that that leads to rollovers.
I saw the Car and Driver show too I agree with most of you statments, but I think most of the tires blew while turning curves, or weaving from lanes. Also I think if you blew a front tire out rather than the rear things could be different. not sure though, those trucks are pretty heavy to start flipping like the media portrayed. JP
Here's a picture of my old '94 S-10 Blazer. I could get it to do a four-wheel drift on dry roads with the all-terrains hollowing like a hound dog in heat. I'm not saying I'm some road ralley proffesional driver, but it comes down to knowing how to control things. It would probably tip over if the driver was to try and make it, or didn't have a feel for things. I'm sure hitting a curb sideways could help greatly. As far as traction in the snow? My '83 DeVille did better until I hit the 4-wheel drive button in the S-10. The anti-lock brakes worked like a charm in the rain, but were absolutely worthless in the snow. In fact, I believe it would stop better in the snow without the anti-lock brakes interferring. Incidentally, it sucked off-road in comparison to the FJ-40.
