Street Torque Converter Preference

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by LARRY70GS, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Because I have never had an accurate tachometer in the car with this engine, I really don't know where I am RPM wise. That is my fault. I reinstalled the stock tach, before I put this new engine in, and although it works, it is wildly inaccurate. I previously had an Autometer tach, and it was dead on. In OD at 60 MPH, it read about 2200. The stock tach read 2800. I had previously adjusted my governor to get a 1-2 @ 5500, and 2-3 @ 5400. I'm not even sure if that is true anymore. I don't know where it is shifting, but it seems low. I now have the Autometer back in. I will need to put my drag radials back in to see where it is shifting. I can't even get halfway through 1st gear with street tires before they start to spin. When it gets warmer, I'll have to evaluate my shift points and get them as close to 6000 as I can.
     
  2. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Something kinda stealthy to do is depending on what ign box etc you or others have I would hide a shift light in one of the air vents, easier to go by instead of trying to watch the tach.
     
  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I know it frustrates you that I don't get the car to the track more than I do. I do not want to break it and be stranded, so I go when there is a big event, with lots of club members that can help if something happens. I am not about to buy or borrow a truck and trailer to remedy this, so don't suggest that either. Cecil is the one event that is ideal. E Town would be great too, but we all know what a mad house that place is, and how long you have to wait for a run. If someone was to say to me, I have a truck and trailer, lets go take your car and see if we can sort it out, I wouldn't say no to that. Fact is, I'm not a racer, as I've said before. Sometimes I think because someone gave me the nickname wizard, that people seem to think I am so kind of know it all. I'm not, and I'll be the first one to tell you that. I do need someone to help me when I am at the track. Understandably, every one is pretty busy at the track. I really don't want to bother anyone. I know the ignition timing is right on. It is rock steady at 35*, and the timing is locked out. I'm not sure of the AED carburetor, and without a wideband, I'm not sure what to do.

    BTW, I think what you did at Cecil was nuts. I remember asking you and your friend (forgot his name, Ford guy) what you were doing when you had your carburetor apart. When you told me you were leaning the carburetor out, do you remember what I said? I said, well, as long as you have some race gas in the tank, it will probably just slow down when you go too far. You then told me, no race gas, we have pump gas. I said, it will detonate. You said no it won't if the tune is right. At that point, I said, OK, and walked back to my car. According to what I have been told, running straight pump gas at the track is a big no no, and leaning the motor out, in addition to that, is begging for detonation. You claim it didn't detonate. Then what caused the motor to be leaking anti freeze from the head gasket area? Why was the motor then pushing freeze plugs out after you replaced the head gasket? What else would cause that? Obviously, the carburetor needed leaning out, because your trap speed increased, but you went too far, without the insurance that race gas would have given you. I don't know how much that will cost you when all is said and done. I may be slow moving when it comes to tuning my car. You are absolutely right about that. It isn't hurt though. I'll figure it out eventually, however long it takes.

    BTW, I'm not changing transmissions or torque converters yet. I'm simply exploring my options. My first order of business is my shift points. I will take care of that as soon as the weather and road conditions improve in the Spring. The tachometer is in. I have the governor kit, and a new governor.

    Also, the car did pick up with the AED. Not much a tenth and a half, and 1.5 MPH, but it did pick up. More to come, however long it takes me.

    ---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 PM ----------

    I have a pretty good spot to test the 1-2 shift point, and the tach I have now is really easy to read. I'll only be going about 50 MPH at 6000 RPM in 1st gear so that is doable. The 2-3, I have to find an empty highway. That entails quite a trip for me.
     
  4. dentboy

    dentboy stacy kelevra

    The statement in the fourth line of your remark states, you are not a racer, I AM, just because someone told you your not supposed to run pump gas at the track, that's what you believe. Yes we were leaning out the carb, and the car went faster, you tune for mph not et. Why did the head gasket go?? Honestly don't know but I can show you the head gasket and rod bearings and you can show me the signs of detonation?? But there aren't any?? And after head gasket was fixed block kept popping right rear freeze out plug out after beating on it, checked block no problems, checked coolant for combustion( that you told me to do) it was fine, only thing I can think of is possible block flexing?? Block was already .030 when o got it, so who knows the history.. and if you think running lean would cause freeze out plug to come out??? Where'd you get that one from??? If a car is set up to run on pump gas no reason it can't, and my friend Rob runs his 3100lb small block ford all day going 9.70s. Motor prob has 300 passes on it, that we built also I tuned my 800hp small block ford that goes low 9s on muscle, so I think we got a pretty good grip on how to go fast..
    When we finish updating Jason's 71 were going to the track to tune it before Ohio, I'd be glad to trailer your car to whatever track we go to and let's tune your car, im sure bruno will come also, i think he knows a thing or two also, since his race car runs with the best of them. But before then let's get the car to shift close to 6000 get a a/f bung in your exhaust and let's get the car to run like it should and let's stop playing hop sketch. Your motor makes more power than mine but yet I went 117mph to your 113 or 115??
    And FYI before I leaned out the carb we fattened it up and went slower so you lean it out till mph falls off then go back to what it was. That's a small part of tuning. I'm here to help when your ready if you don't want to break stuff don't go to the track.
     
  5. speedtigger

    speedtigger 9 Second Club

    This is pretty off topic in a torque converter thread. Is there another thread about your engine failure? If not, you could start one. It is an interesting topic to discuss.
     
  6. mygs462

    mygs462 Well-Known Member

    Try sticky tires and take it easy with the launch. IT may help
     
  7. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Cool, how much does the car weigh and combo?
     
  8. tufbuick

    tufbuick RIP


    . popcorn-boxes.jpg
     
  9. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Stacy,

    RE: expansion plug popping out..

    Are you running a thermostat, or some other type of restriction?

    Three possible causes

    Installation issues-- block damage due to corrosion of the holes is causing a poor interference fit with that plug, this could be compounded if you tried to use a silicone based sealer to seal it up. Silicone and expansion plugs is a no-no. Use Permatex 1B sealer only. Blocks with corrosion damaged holes should have the plugs epoxied in.

    Water pressure issues- Any restriction in the flow path of the water can result in overpressure of the block coolant passages, and the weakest plug will pop out then.

    Compression pressure- If you had a substantial head gasket leak into the water jacket, this pressure might pop a plug out.


    As far as Larry and pump/race gas mix at the drag strip.. I told him that, all it accomplishes is a little extra insurance for detonation. Does not hurt or help your time, and it's a cheap investment, especially when your tuning.

    Another reason is that race fuel is typically more closely controlled to maintain quality and to insure that it's actually what they say it is.

    Do you really know that the fuel in the premo pump is the octane that it says it is?

    By their nature, bulk delivered products like pump premo are more susceptible to outside influences and quality issues.

    JW
     
  10. dentboy

    dentboy stacy kelevra

    Thanks for the info Jim, all that you mentioned was checked and all OK. Running a thermostat, car never goes over 165-170, shop only uses permatex on freeze out plugs, head gasket was not blown, pushed out from front coolant passage towards front of head, no coolant in oil, it definitely sounds like a pressure build up problem. Only thing we did notice is that freeze out plug hole, instead of just edge being beveled it was ground down little further into block. But plug went in tight and was fine for 5 months the motor was together. And I'm not easy on my car on the street I've made many many full passes and never had any problems ..I'm at a total loss why this happened which is the worse thing
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    As far as I know, the major factors that cause detonation are, fuel of insufficient octane, over advanced ignition timing, high coolant temperatures, too high a heat range spark plugs, very high engine loads, and lean fuel mixtures. Coupling pump gas and then leaning out the fuel mixture seemed to me to be asking for trouble. Manual transmission cars can increase engine loads also. While you saw no signs of detonation, how much does it have to happen at WOT to cause a problem? It still could have detonated. If you had some kind of knock detector like on modern cars, I'd feel better about what you were doing, but you didn't. I still think you were asking for trouble, but it is your engine to do with as you like. As Jim mentioned, increased cooling system pressure could have popped out freeze plug(s), so I thought worse case scenario was you cracked a cylinder wall, and was leaking combustion gases into the coolant. I'm glad to hear that wasn't the case, but you didn't mention it to me, nor have I read that before on the board (did I miss that?).

    I would love to trailer my car to the track, and I will absolutely take you up on your gracious offer. Thank You Stacy:TU: I'm not as much afraid of breaking as I am of being stuck at the track with no way to get home. I will absolutely have it shifting as close to 6000 RPM as I can get it. I'll see about getting a bung welded in for an O2 sensor. If the weather is good for the Spring Meet, I think John can do that for me.
     
  12. dentboy

    dentboy stacy kelevra

    I never posted anything on here because I knew what was going on with my motor, I didn't need all different opinions, that's like the expression too many cooks in the kitchen. No cracked cylinders, heads or anything. Compression test and leak down was fine.
    If john can't weld the bung in got plenty of people out her that can.
    Gas tolls and lunch on you when we trailer your car!!!!! Maybe dinner too
     
  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Yes, but you don't according to the quote below.


    I bought this Wideband, http://www.aemelectronics.com/digital-wideband-air-fuel-gauge-745?osCsid=sj0lbc6cm2sft0c6oqhmkpmii5

    Yes, gas, tolls, and lunch on me. If we are successful, dinner too!:laugh:
     
  14. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

  15. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Thank You Alan, but I don't want to shift it myself. I will set my governor to shift right where it needs to. I'd rather have it hands free, gives me more time to try to watch gauges and such. I have the Autometer tach back in and it works flawlessly. It's very easy to read also. The only thing I need to do is put the drag radials on. I can't even get halfway through 1st gear with the street radials on it.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. gusszgs

    gusszgs Well-Known Member

    :grin: I remember going over to a huge open arena parking lot near where I live on a warm summer day, I had the 11.5 QT Pros on and from a stand still it literally destroyed the Hoosiers all thru 1st and 2nd gear.........after heating them up. I had to let out! Tad bit of torque I'd say :laugh:

    By the way Larry, I run the exact same tach in the exact same spot as you. Works awsome! And it was you I got the idea from on one of your old threads. And I thank you for that :TU:
     
  17. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You're Welcome Jim, it is a great tach. If I leave it in low stall, it will start to destroy the street tires about 1/2 way through 1st gear. I'm thinking I should be able to get to the top of 1st gear with the Drag Radials. I'll drop the pressure and heat them up if I have to.
     
  18. speedtigger

    speedtigger 9 Second Club

    Well, normally I would not want to hijack or derail a thread, but this one is gone already. :laugh: My raceweight is #3780. My Blasphemous combo is a 2004 Cadillac Escalade 6 liter junkyard motor with a 226/234 cam, ported heads, Victor Jr, 950 Holley, TH200-4R, 3700 lock up converter, 3.90 gear, 3" exhaust and M/T275s.

    Yes sir, Once a car gets so fast, watching the tach ain't gonna happen.
     
  19. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    BUT! Go easy on Larry about seeing the tach, this is why I suggested a shift light, that spot in the dash is hard to find and see in a fast car but Larry is ok. He has plenty of time for that while making his 1/4 mile passes :moonu::laugh:

    ---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

    What happen to the car that you can drive any where any time? Doesn't your car now become a race car? Of coarse not, but this is the same reason most others that race there street/strip cars use a trailer, with your own statement I think we can now call an end to that great debate over what is or is not a street car. The gold car hits every race there is on the Island but he is close to the track so he drives there.

    ---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

     
  20. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I've driven the car to Cecil round trip twice now. The car has also been to Ohio, and numerous times to New Jersey and Pennsylvania as well as upstate NY and Connecticut. I can drive it anywhere, but if I am going to be tuning it, and changing things, the trailer is a nice thing to have just in case. Any car can break at any time, street car, track car, whatever.


    You know Chris, you like poking people don't you?:grin: So how come you can't take what you dish out? :rolleyes:
     

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