Solar Power

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by Briz, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    We are looking into going solar. Had a company out here that quoted us a price on installing 17.9Kw worth of panels. supposedly enough to power the house completely + extra to sell back to the power company. They mentioned tax incentives, credits ect. How long would it take to recover the start up cost of 50K based on a average 300.00 a month power bill keeping in mind the incentives and proceeds from the resale of the power. I know its pretty vague but any info is appreciated.
     
  2. tdacton

    tdacton Gold Level Contributor

    In a vague answer, if you considered you may get a check for $100 a month as a credit for your extra power and you did not have a $300 bill, it would still be just over a 10 year ROI. That is with zero maintenance cost and not considering the interest earned with 50k for 10 years.
    Troy
     
  3. David G

    David G de-modded....

    My impression in reading about private solar power options is that it's best viewed as an environmentally friendly thing to do, but not necessarily a great financial decision. 50k is a huge investment, if you ask me. I find it hard to believe it really costs that much for a single house. I see panels on rooftops all over here, and I don't live in an "affluent" neighborhood, it's very middle income around here.

    Spend some time with Google results, it's not hard to find expert opinions online. (I'm not an expert...)

    Ok, Google showed me a neat little solar savings estimator, and for my address showed zero savings over a 20yr lease with no upfront costs. You're talking about spending 50k.
     
  4. BillA

    BillA Well-Known Member

    $50k will pay for a lot of energy saving improvements such as high SEER AC, LED lighting, insulated windows, tankless water heater, better insulation. I toured a green home a few weeks ago where they insulated the attic with foil panels and R38 insulation. The attic was literally 5-10 degrees warmer than the house. I didn't even break a sweat up there. I like solar but the cost has to come down. Plus, I generally don't hate the power company like many people do.
     
  5. jake csordas

    jake csordas Well-Known Member

    Love my solar. Bought a small system of 16 panels. Cost me 12000 before all rebates. Got a 5000 dollar rebate. That put it at 7000 out of pocket. Was able to claim it on my taxes and that got me back another 2800 instead of paying. So in my eyes total layout was 4200. I save about 90 dollars a month on my electric bill. So in approx 4 years with the rate of increase in electric it will be all paid off with the savings and the rest is pure savings. It was a no brainer for me. Look into doing a smaller system. The scam is you don't want to sell any back to the electric company. They buy it for 1 cent per killowatt. Costs you about 17. You want to use as close or over what you actually produce. If we didn't have a winter in ny my electric would all be free.
     
    Harlockssx likes this.
  6. rmstg2

    rmstg2 Gold Level Contributor

    That is a lot of money for the return, I think solar is either going to be less expensive or will go away, as in replaced by something else. Here where I live power is not very expensive, our average is around $1200.00 a year, so spending that much on solar is out of the question.



    Bob H.
     
  7. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Already have all the upgrades you mentioned. Installed most when I built the house. Added the LED lights this year. House is 3100 Sq. feet and a 2100 sq' shop. + additional 800Sq' game room above the main garage.

    They are offering 30 yr warranty on the panels and 15 yrs on the equipment. Talked to my power coop today and they said the extra power would be banked and whatever was left over would be paid out at the end of the year in the form of a check.Customer service lady said there was only 5 or so houses in the county with a solar bank and 2 of those had enough panels to earn a refund. She offered to get me the info. Still 50G is a huge wad to drop on one project. Could build a really nice race car with that.
     
  8. yachtsmanbill

    yachtsmanbill Well-Known Member

    That's one of WATT's laws... any kind of energy takes more to produce it than the net return. Even at the coal fired power plant where I worked, about 60% of what we produced was used for house service at the plant. 5000 HP electric motors aren't cheap to run! Steam locomotives run at about 15% heat rate (that's 85% lost outa the stack) and diesel locos upped that to about a 28-30% heat rate. Whats the heat rate on that condenser outside giving you? Its like running a bicycle generator on each car wheel to run an electric drive system. How much power is used for the AC and Alternator on the car at full load? Its more than 100 amps (watts) of gas.

    Sorry. Got off track there; go wind generator! ws
     
  9. JZRIV

    JZRIV Platinum Level Contributor

    Out of curiosity Briz what is your energy cost per KWH? I think FL is pretty reasonable which hurts ROI. A key factor would be if you have a wide open space to get max full day sun to the panels.

    Solar is great for folks that are in remote location, like to live simply with few modern electrical appliances, maybe like a weekend cabin get-a-way, or maybe a place too remote to get power lines run, or intentionally want to be off the grid. If there was an actual ROI, a lot more people would be doing it guaranteed. There are a few solar panels popping up in this area but my experience is its folks who want to feel good about using renewable energy. PA don't get anywhere near enough sunny days to come close to making solar pay for itself. They are willing to lose money but it makes them feel good so its worth it to them. Other people see the big panels and mistakenly think it must save money since they are doing it. I know one person who hates the power company so bad he installed solar panels so he can "stick it to them" at least in his mind. Much like car hobbyists don't mind losing money buying and fixing up old cars. :idea2:

    I live high on a hill with no wind barrier for miles. I'd have bet money there would have been a return if I installed a windmill. Even doing the full installation and wiring myself, there would be no payback no matter how hard I tried to justify it.
     
  10. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

  11. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    This was several years back but my step-Dad did his own install of the biggest solar panel system California would permit on a residence and it was $40k up front in just materials. At the time there were some good power company rebates and tax incentives, but it was still something like $25-28k afterwards. His power bills were upwards $600+/mo and dropped to essentially nothing so the payback was in the 4-6 year range, and being the California market the home equity essentially covered the rest. Which when they sold the house and moved out of CA they made a kings fortune and the solar installation played into the desirability of the house. Of course that only works if you plan on eventually selling.

    Like rmstg2, Nevada power rates are too low for it to make any kind of economic sense short of building completely off the grid because bringing in power lines would be more expensive.
     
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  12. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    Federal government will give you a 30% (of installed cost) rebate via tax credit on your income taxes. Presently avail through 2019. Only applies to a system you purchase, a leased system will not give you the credit.
    https://www.energystar.gov/about/2016_federal_tax_credits

    Your power company may also offer a rebate. Best to contact them directly.
    'Net metering' is when the power company purchases your excess electricity. It varies from state to state and provider to provider.
    You will be using a 'grid tied system'...... tied to the power company, that is. You purchase power when you aren't producing power, and your excess power gets fed back into the grid (thru a power meter).

    Solarpowerrocks gives a very comprehensive list of the various rebates, tax incentives, etc for each state. Here's Florida:
    https://solarpowerrocks.com/florida/

    An installed system is generally a little over $3.35/watt. If you install yourself, you can cut that in half.
    Payback times are usually around 10 years but will vary widely.

    I haven't found a great forum, but generally visit solarpaneltalk.com

    If you want to do some reading on your own, either purchase or download a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies".
     
  13. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    the Wife and I considered going solar aswell. after some calculations we discovered it would be much wiser to put the money into the market. the return would be much greater.
     
  14. 70 gsconvt

    70 gsconvt Silver Level contributor

    Yeah, unfortunately solar power just hasn't gotten the efficiency needed to make it an economically sensible option in my opinion. With cells only having an efficiency of 10 to 30% for the really good ones, it's tough to cost justify them. But it is a cool way to go and very eco friendly.

    I looked at a wind turbine at my house a couple of years back. But just like you, the payback time period was huge, almost 20 years for me because we just don't get sustained winds all the time where I live. And here in Ohio, solar is really out as we don't see the sun from November until the beginning of April.

    Good luck with the project. You can't show them off to many people. But a nice car can be enjoyed by all!
     
  15. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    OUr last bill said it was 8 KW a day. Now this is winter months and we dont use nearly the amount of energy that we do in the summer months. last Aug it was 77 Kw a day for a cost of just under 10.00 a day . yr prior to that in the same month was 71. There is plenty of rooftop real estate that gets full sun all day long.
     
  16. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    X2! If you want solar because you want to be "green" go ahead. If you think it is the wisest use of your money from the investment standpoint, probably not the best idea.
     
  17. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    dang John, we finally agree on something. :beer
     
  18. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Or after that one time charge hit, use the $$ that were spent on the electric bill and put that in some sort of market account? If your system is big enough to get $$ back re-invest that as well?

    You should hit $50K in your "electric" market account faster with interest helping you out along the way to recover the initial $50K costs if invested well. Plus as mentioned with the tax rebates, stick that cash in the account as well, the system should pay for itself in no time with some sort of variation of this strategy.

    You can look at it as making payments back to yourself for buying the system, and after you have paid yourself back that $50K can be used for something else or let it keep growing, dealers choice.



    Derek
     
  19. rogbo

    rogbo Gold Level Contributor

    Wondering what happens if hail storm or wind blown tree debris damages your solar panels.
    Doe you home owner insurance pay! Or do they raise your premium? (probably):Do No:<strike></strike>
     
  20. Brad Conley

    Brad Conley RIP Staff Member

    Yes they will (minus your deductible, of course) and yes they will (raise your premium).
     

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