Running a Little Bit Hot Tonight!

I don't know if it's what you want, but we have original GM studs in our part collection that we've collected over the years if the aftermarket stuff isn't working. Maybe your water pump was machined "wrong" somehow.

 

No, my pumps are all like everyone elses. Most that think they are coarse threaded in the pump are wrong. Some have verified it. Nobody makes the proper studs any more apparently.

I had exactly one stud in my junk box and I cannot find any more. I've even lost that one in the shuffle to Lowe's, Home Depot, Advance Auto and AutoZone in my quest.

Do you have a picture of one of the studs you've saved?

Everyone shows the correct stud but when they quote measurements, they are 5/16-24 5/8" on the fine threaded end, which is too long by at least 1/4" and the coarse thread end is 5/16-18 1/2" which with a pulley, clutch fan flange and lock washer leaves no safety margin.

 

Try these? Says they are standard threads. I haven't removed a nut to look at the threads on my car, but I certainly bough them from the help section, it's my M.O.



http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-Help-23733-Water-Pump/dp/B000CO779G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440604007&sr=8-2&keywords=Water+pump+studs

 

If you can, find an auto parts store, or hardware, that still has Dorman cabinets. Getting fewer of them.

 

Sad, they used to come with a new GM water pump. I had a ton of them back in the day when I worked at the Buick dealership.

 

They look right in the picture but the dimensions are wrong again:

Q: What are the thread sizes on these?

A: Water Pump Stud Kit - 5/16-18 x 7/16 and 5/16-24 x 5/8 Overall Length of 1-1/4

The 5/8" of 5/16-24 is too long and the 7/16" of 5/16-18 is too short.

May have found some! This looks correct and says they are local at an O'Reilly's.

http://www.dormanproducts.com/itemdetail.aspx?ProductID=20388&SEName=675-001

 

Update: Oiling issue pretty much resolved and just got back from a test drive with clutch fan, no thermostat, vacuum advance installed and old brass 4-core radiator filled with tap water on an 84F day.

I took it to fill it up with good gas (93 octane is as good as it gets on Labor Day) and I got it for $1.99 with my Krogers discount points.

Seems to drive OK at lower RPM but the electric fuel pump is turned off as a test. I'm still pulling through with the mechanical but can't rev over about 3,000 in 2nd gear without it bucking like a bronco. I assume the electric pump is a bit of a restriction but I needed to try it. To me that is classic fuel starvation and I've seen that before, which is why I installed the electric fuel pump 35 years ago.

So, on an 84F day, she is running about 180-190 with temps fluctuating up or down, depending on load. It got to about 200 while it was sitting at the parts house but dropped to 160 after a few seconds once fired.

I'd like to think water and the clutch fan made all the difference and try my aluminum radiator again. I'm not sure the vac advance did anything to speak of. This time it is only water so I can dump it easily and try it again. I just hope I don't wear out my core support bolt holes.

 

NO thermostat, and it still runs 180--190 degrees? I think you still have heating issues. 200 after shutdown isn't unusual, heat-soak generally causes temperature rise.

I WOULD be surprised if moving from anti-freeze mix to straight water had any big effect on temperature. Back in the years before "global warming", my hometown was seriously cold in the winter. I ran 70--80% anti-freeze in all my vehicles, and kept it in year-round.

 

You broke the cardinal rule - you changed way too many things at once. Just sayin'...ou:

 

I'm also holding out hope that once it gets run-in good and all the scuffing and buffing is done inside it will settle down and be cooler, too.

Yes, I did but I was getting frustrated and while it was down to figure out the oiling issue, I swapped in the clutch fan after the great stud hunt of August 2015 since the radiator was out.

I changed too many things but now that I have a new baseline, I can swap the radiators and find out what difference that makes alone.

 

Running without a thermostat can decrease system pressure, which decreases heat-transfer efficiency.

I recommend running a thermostat for any street car.

-BC

 

Agreed. I'd only see 120-140F with a stuck open thermostat. Even on my Firebird where I run an electric water pump, if I don't cycle the pump it'll run 140F on an 85F day.

The radiator should set the maximum temperature and the thermostat the artificial minimum, which is engineered to be above the radiator's maximum.

I have never noticed a change in coolant temp going between an anti-freeze mix and straight water.

 

Nope, see that all the time..

Have a 70 GS in the shop right now, aluminum radiator, 560 HP STG 2 470 (Alum heads).. good tune, no issues.. no stat.. runs 180-185 on hot humid days, a few degrees cooler in the morning in the cool air.

What your seeing is the capability of the cooling system.

In the summer, the T stat opens, and never closes again. If Roland Has a 455 Buick that will run at 120* on a 80* day, with no stat, and he is not towing a dump truck radiator on a trailer behind the car, then he should be buying lotto tickets. Never seen that in 40+ years of 455 familiarity. The family cars when I was small, always ran hot in the summertime.

I don't run 'em.. why?.. long warmup? who cares... most of these things are dumping fuel past the rings at idle, so extra fuel from a long warmup is the last thing you need to worry about. And in my experience, with lots of different builds, doesn't happen.

Typically what I do is gut the thermostat, and install the ring as a flow restriction, to slow the water down so it has more dwell time in the radiator.

Thermostats were invented to operate vehicles efficiently at low ambient temps, and provide passenger heat.

I have said it before, and will again.. Engine coolant thermostats are not needed on summer driven cars, and are a time bomb waiting to overheat your engine. A simple restriction does just about the same job, minus the quicker warmup, and is fool-proof.

JW

 

With my setup I can not have a thermostat and It will not get over 140 until l drive it then it might get 180.

I have to turn off the water pump (it is electric) and let it run about a minuet or two then turn it on.

I have to use a 3/4 inch Moroso restrictor. Anything bigger and it will not get over 100.

There is still a issue.


Thinking of coming down September 12th to the LS fest to hang out if you are near by and want a fresh set of eyes to look at it, let me know.

 

I say burr to you sir. p

 

Update: Nothing changed but the outside temp. At 70F, it never got over 180 and it took 15 minutes to get to that. How much impact does 20 cooler air affect the engine temp? It seems I'm at least 30 cooler with 20 cooler outside air. Humidity is also quite a bit lower tonight.

I also hooked up the electric fuel pump and it will pull through the bottom 2 gears no problem. Pulls to 5,000 like my Tundra revs to 3,500. Once I get a few more miles on it I'll see if it pulls as strong to 5,500 on my way to a 6,000 pill in an MSD.

What should a 9.25:1 462ci with forged pistons, TA212, Edelbrock heads and Performer with a Q-jet expect to redline at? I'm not looking for anything over about 6,000 and if it is between 5,000 and 5,500 I'll be pretty happy.

I'll go for some more rides and probably swap in the aluminum radiator again to see how it acts if the temps stay in line.

Will also change the oil to a standard non-break-in oil shortly.

 

That's not the usual cooling system problem, but it is a problem.

 

Post #107 says he removed the stat. Way too many things changed at once, along with a big drop in ambient air temp, makes any conclusions drawn pretty much useless.

 

Agreed and I was in a hurry to get it down some how. Can't imagine being super hot all the time was good for it, especially on a brand new motor build.

I'm going to drop the aluminum radiator back in this weekend and see what happens and go from there.

 

Latest update:

Replaced only the old brass radiator with the new aluminum radiator. On a 78F evening it runs about 160, lower when idling. At these temps it is very slow to warm up and never reaches a good operating temp. Thinking I need at least a 160 thermostat just to get some heat quicker and stabilize it.

Current Status: No thermostat, aluminum radiator, 18" clutch fan in 22" shroud.



Next is either a 20" clutch fan to better fit the 22" radiator shroud or the re-installation of the thermostat. Once the fan/shroud are sorted, the cooling should be just about as good as it can get and appears to be more than adequate.

The saga continues but definitely making progress.

I must admit I suspect part of the change is it is a little more broken in and lower heat being generated inside a tight motor.

The new motor is definitely stronger. The old motor and 200-4R with the 2,500 stall, it only barks 3rd at really hard throttle. With the new 462 and all else the same, it barks 3rd at moderate throttle much easier.

I am hopeful!