Dear V-8 Buick Station wagon fans, I'm discovering that no manufacturer (thus far investigated) make a dual-exhaust plumbing kit for a 1964-67 GM A-body station wagon. I thought I could buy this off the rack and have completely struck out. My latest thinking is that I would still buy a mandrel formed kit to go from the headers to the mufflers. That all should work either the car is a wagon or coupe. The mandrel formed stuff will provide less resistance were it matters the most: between the engine and the mufflers. Then I would have the muffler shop custom fit the exhaust around the spare tire well as best they can. How did you Drag'n Wagon types route your tailpipes around the spare tire well and where does your exhaust exit? I was hoping to keep the side exhaust that da' trusty wagon has now to reduce the risk of exhaust getting back into the car from a partially open tailgate window. Is that common or not? Anybody got some exhaust tips that look particularly sexy on a wagon? After all, my trusty wagon is very fashion conscious too!! Thanks as always for all the clever ideas you may have!:Smarty: Cheers, Edouard :beer P.S. Pictures if available would be especially appreciated. :kodak:
Hi Edouard, My Special Wagon has the TA 2.5...I added an X crossover... not a lot of difference, small change in tone. Mine has the ubiquitous Dynomax Turbo mufflers. I installed the exhaust and modified the tail pipes to come from behind the axle out at a 45* angle behind the rear tires. They hang low enough to be parallel to the frame and miss the spare tire well. I was thinking you might want the Billy Goat to be quieter! My experience: Mandrel bend exhaust is great for flow, but harder to keep quiet. I've had thoughts of using http://www.classicchambered.com/classic/products.html the 2.5 along the driveshaft to quiet it down...always thinking about more mufflers. One could not do an X pipe with that idea, maybe an H. The best sounding exhaust on any of my cars was with the longest case muffler possible..24" Ultra Flow Welded and an H pipe. That was mellow! Ted
I know a guy at work with a primo '67 Chevelle wagon. I'll take a look underneath, with his permission, to see how he routed it. Can't be all that different, down under. If I recall correctly, his exhaust comes out on either side, behind the rear tires.
when I built my 72 I used a Torque Tech 3" system, used A body head pipes, 20" walker super dynomax mufflers and used G body tail pipes since they exit behind the rear wheels, I had to modify the tail pipes just a bit to get the fit I wanted but expected that. My SportWagon was one of the very first to get a 3" system on it.
Edouard Sorry my picture was not clear enough but as has been stated, it is just like SportWagonGS suggested. A regular A-Body system and then tail pipes right behind the tear tires. There is a good reason to do it that way, exhaust gases can be nasty with tail gate window open. Cheers, Korrie Pics should give you a good view. Manfolds on this car BTW
Thanks for the good advice. (Re: Routing dual-exhaust) Dear Ted, SteeveeDee, Kurt, Korrie, Alan, and V-8 Buick assertive wagon lovers, Thanks for all the good advice here. I'm going to take my trusty wagon back to the muffler shop tomorrow morning with all I've learned and get a second opinion. The more I educate myself about these things, the more I want to go "H" pipe instead of "X" crossover. Dynomax 24" Ultra Fro Welded mufflers - huh? Hmm, That sounds very interesting to me. I'm all in favor of quiet!! I just got off the phone with Torque Tech and they weren't sure how to pull this off. I just send you a PM to see if you could recall any more juicy tidbits that might help. Thanks for the pictures. I can just show that to the muffler shop so they understand what I want. That's just one thing too many for me to take on right now. I'll take a look at how the present hitch is mounted, but this will have to wait until I get the car back together. I hope that moving the exhaust to just behind the rear wheels will reduce the risk of conflict. I'll try to look tomorrow when the car is up at the muffler shop to see if there is some hard-points that should avoided when the tail-pipes go in just in case the new hitch would require being secured that far back on the car. Thanks for all the feedback gang!! :TU: Cheers, Edouard :beer
Glad to help and I did reply to your PM with detailed info, with more time I could round up pictures as well. I had briefed Keith at Torque Tech about the mods I did but that was almost 13 years ago and I'm sure whomever you spoke with had no idea that I had ever told Keith...cause ya know....13 years ago!
Ed, Take that MAC of yours and open up your favorite search engine, and do a "X pipe vs H pipe" search. You will get hundreds of hits. You will spend hours reviewing just a fraction of the material out there. Most tests I have seen , with headers on various engines, show the x pipe to be 6-10 db quieter than an H pipe. And considerably more powerful. Keep in mind, your long tube header equipped engine has considerably different needs than anything running a set of exhaust manifolds. In my experience, the effects of different crossovers, pipe diameters and to some extent mufflers, on a vehicle equipped with cast iron manifolds, are often almost undetectable. I equate free flowing mandrel bent exhaust, behind a set of 400/430/455 Buick cast iron exhaust manifolds, to dredging the Colorado River, after the Hoover Dam. So those sharing their experiences should identify what is bolted to the motor.. iron manifolds or headers of some type. I like the idea of the tailpipes coming out behind the wheels, and like how the GN/Regal platform cars did it in the mid 80's.. with about a 45* angle, vs a 90* to the quarter-panel. JW
Oooh!! "X" crossover is cool!! (Re: Routing dual-exhaust) Howdy Kurt, Jim, and V-8 Buick exhaust system experts! Thanks for the detailed info. After I get back from the muffler shop I'll check with Torque Tech again and try to get hold of Keith. But, but, but . . . . . Jim you don't understand, if I keep finding new things to research - I'll never get this car finished!!!! ou: Okay, okay, okay, . . . I made a quick look and . . . . . . . . Oooh!! I like this!! I liked the way this little article describes it: http://www.onallcylinders.com/2012/08/14/video-exhaust-x-pipes-vs-h-pipes/ I hadn't thought of this as pressure waves of exhaust gases. So the "X" crossover is creating a point where the waves are themselves colliding. That creates extreme troughs of low pressure that can help in evacuating gases from the cylinders. Okay that's really cool! Sold!! Yeah, but Jim you didn't answer the really important question . . . . . . which exhaust tips look the best at 45˚ to make a wagon have the greatest sex-appeal!! :laugh: Seriously thanks for the pointer. I needed the nudge to look into the physics of "X" crossovers. :TU: Will report when I get back from the muffler shop! Cheers, Edouard :beer
I'll go with a custom dual-exhuast. (Re: Routing dual-exhaust) Howdy V-8 Buick wagon exhaust experts, I'm back from West Coast Mufflers and the fellows over there convinced me, I'll just have him do a custom exhaust and eat the flow losses for because the bends won't be done using a mandrel. I've told him I still want an "X" crossover and he'll make that custom. I'll need to make my final choice on mufflers and routing but that should be easy. Here is my reasoning. If I've done the math correctly, the cross-sectional area of an ellipse 2" by 2 1/2" is only about 20% smaller than a full 2 1/2" circle. However, my goal here is to keep my assertive engine purrin' like a kitten most of the time at around 2000 RPM. Even in the worst case scenario, it is unlikely to exceed 4000 RPM. The drag racers among you are trying to get to 8000 RPM and beyond. That is 2 to 4 times the amount of exhaust gases per unit time. For what I'm trying to do with the car, I'll never notice the 20% reduction in flow volume. Having West Coast just do a custom exhaust will save me some headaches and even a little :dollar: . . . I took advantage of having the car up on a rack to take some photos of the underside of my trusty wagon. In preparation of all the forthcoming work, I've created a new photo sharing account so that I can share galleries of photos with you'all. That way you can get all the gory details you can digest. The gallery of the underside photos is here: http://canebas.smugmug.com/Biquette...rside/28023566_dcJJcp#!i=2366604783&k=PJB6pWv However, the one photo that I thought would be interesting to wagon onlookers is this photo showing how the spare tire well has almost no effect on how the exhaust is routed. In fact you can barely see the well behind the frame and exhaust pipe as it is presently hung: Click on the photo to get a larger image. As far as I can tell, standard mid-60s GM A-body exhaust kits should fit without modification as long as you are to put up with the exhaust exiting at the back. For those who actually want to use their tailgate, it seems to me that you could modify the exhaust routing using welded fittings and avoid the 20% penalty that I'm willing to swallow. Looking at where the spare tire well is located, the 45˚ exit path might be a little awkward. It would certainly be easier to send the exhaust at 90˚ just before the spare tire well. To make that more appealing, I was thinking about using a pair of nice shiny downturn exhaust tips. It could be angled downward but with just a twist toward the rear for "coolness" Awe shucks Alan, do you have to be correct all the time? :Brow: It turns out that West Coast Mufflers could be called: West Coast Mufflers and Custom Tow Hitches. So it looks like I'll get an exhaust and custom tow receiver in one stop!! Hey, once in a while I win one! Thanks for all the help everyone! :TU: Cheers, Edouard :beer
Thanks for sharing Kurt!! (Re: Routing dual-exhaust) Howdy Kurt and V-8 Buick wagon exhaust experts, Actually, thanks for sharing them!! :TU: It is interesting how you did it. I can see though that the location of the rear-axle on a 65 is quite different than a 72. Your solution is very elegant indeed, but it would take more "contortions" to get in between the rear tire and in between the spare tire well in my trusty wagon. I guess that's just one more reason why I guess I won't take up drag racing . . . . . . . . :laugh: Cheers, Edouard :beer
