Hello Buick Racers, I was wondering if anyone out there in Buick land knows what the fastest normally aspirated Buick 1/4 mile pass is????? From what I have heard, John Massuod has the quickest stage 1 car with the ET being somewhere in the 9.50s. Is there anyone out there who has gone faster with Stage 1 cast iron heads? I ask because I was talking with Jim Wilson this weekend at Quaker City Drag Raceway in Ohio. He claims that his Stage 1 car has gone low 9.50s. Any information is appreciated. Thanks
Quickest Stage 1 John, The following are official standings of the quickest/fastest stage 1 Gran Sports that I know of. To be fair the cars must be a GS or Skylark and a door slammer full bodied car. No nitrous, or turbo or supercharged. And most of all they must be running with the factory iron Buick Stage 1 heads and run on gas. Actually John Massoud's '67 is street legal in the state of MA and sports the tags and registration to prove it. For the 2002 years so far: Name, et, weight w/driver car Rob Chilenski 9.53 at 139 mph 3,250 lbs '70 GS John Massoud 9.57 at 138 mph 3,325 lbs '67 GS Rick Martinez 9.82 at 135 mph 3,215 lbs '70 GS Bruno DiPaola 9.87 at 135 mph 3,230 lbs '65 GS All of the above are running a single Holley carb on a aftermarket aluminum intake either KB or TA's. Also it should be noted that way back around 1988 or '89 McIntosh out of Georgia had a tube framed '71 GS (glass one piece nose). It ran I beieve a 9.67. I haven't seen the car since that record stood until 2001 when both Rob and John beat that time. If someone is running faster in in the mix I would like to know about it if possible. The above 4 GS's are all featured in the first edition of the BPG newsletter, the Build Sheet. Along with the fastest full bodied Nailhead GS. Bob Quigg with his 1966 GS ran an 11.64 at 115.88 on pure Buick power and factory heads and get this factory stock 1.4 rockers! The car is NOT back halved it is a full frame car! His car is also featured in the same issue. All of the above (excluding the McIntosh Car) should be seen racing at Buick Performance Weekend at E-Town, NJ on Labor Day and at the Bristol Event and also the Cecil County Meet in early October. Actually John what may be fun is to plan an east meets west gamblers race and hold it at Norwalk during the Buick Day Event that Roberta and Bill Wills hold. That would be interesting. Hope this answers your question Rick Martinez
Rick, Thanks for the information. Jim Wilsons car is a Monza (not sure of the weight) and has gone 9.51. I ask this Rick because Dad and I want to throw our hat in the ring for this record. We have the Stage 1 engine out of the 1966 Lemans that we had and think can come close to these guys. Now.... I will say that our car is lighter than John's so I know he will still be making more HP. Our car with the Stage 2 engine is 2800 lbs with driver so it should be around 2850 with the Stage 1 heads. We will make the engine change at the end of this season and bring it to Cecil. Take Care John R. Zerucha 9.36 @143 mph (= 9.16 at Cecil) (= 9.46 with Stage 1 at Cecil)
John, The Monza would not be included being a non Buick car and not a Skylark type body. Sounds like a plan with your project. We always welcome another 9 second full bodied GS/Skylark into the group. The best is after running 9 second passes at the local track the Brand X'rs come over and ask what type of juice kit we have. We then tell them it all power and one look at the engine seeing 1 carb and factory heads they just walk away is disbelief. That's the best part of it. About early last year all four of us were racing at E-town. We were BS'ing about who's the lightest. We then paired up and ran and we all met at the scales and the buck stopped there. We had a ton of laughs when Rob Chilenski was on the scale and me and John Massoud were lifting on the scale plate with our feet to make his car lighter. He damn near turned 3 shades of red. Anyway hope to see you at Cecil. Hope you do your homework on your car, because I know John is looking to out do Rob and Rob is not the type to sit back. Plus my engine has been stepped up and also Bruno's. We figured the high 9.40's is only a few months away for one of us to hit at least. Rick
Rick, Jim Wilson has the right idea here. He puts the Skyhawk emblem on the car when he is running a regular event but then he puts the Monza emblem on the car so he car run Super Chevy. Not a bad idea. I have done some homework. I am really debating if I need to put a roller cam in this thing or not. Any ideas??? John
All four of us are running roller cams from TA. John did you join up on the BPG cause the complete write ups on the fours GS's are in it? Engine specs, trans rear etc. Rick
Just because my car is not a skylark does not mean it is not a buick. 9.50's with a HYDRAULIC cam is pretty good regardless of what body style. Jim Wilson
Hey Rick, Would Cory Ruffo count? I think he's been in the 8's with iron stage I heads. I don't have any contact info for him. later
No doubt about it Jim, 9.5's are great times. I just think what they are doing is looking at times for comparable body styles, weights, etc. What do you weigh in at? Car & driver, not YOU... :eek2: :laugh:
My car with driver is 2650 lbs. I understand what they are saying, but what is the difference between a full tube chassis, fibreglass fendered skylark, and a full tube chassis, fibreglass fendered skyhawk? We approach these goals different, but the results are the same. ( 9 sec runs ) Sure my car may be a little lighter, but they have much, much better motors. Let them put a stock block, hydraulic cammed,, home made heads, in and see how fast they go. I've been racing buicks for 25 yrs and I appreciate all types of buick race cars, no matter what style it is. Us buick people should stick together, our numbers are not that large. And by the way, when I bought this current race car, I had an all steel 67 GS. I took the old motor out of the 67 and put in the skyhawk: the difference, 3 tenths. Now if this newer motor was in the 67, hmmmmm you do the math. Sorry to go on like this, but it bugs me when someone tells me my car is not a buick.
Jim, When I first posted the question I said your car was a Monza. That is my mistake. I meant to say it was a Skyhawk. Rick, I did not join the BPG yet but will be doing so very soon!!! I have to try Wal-Mart. LOL I guess you guys are going to force me into putting a roller cam in this thing!!! I know that I will not be making as much power but I think it will be fun. Shayne, I think Cory's car went faster than 9.50s but I am not sure if it was normally aspirated. These are answers that I am looking for so I know what goal I need to achieve. Any and all info appreciated. Thanks John Zerucha
I'm pretty sure Cory Ruffo from Pa has gone 9.3's with the Stg 1 heads.....The 8's came from aftermarket heads. His car is a '70 'lark or GS. Maybe I'll call him to get the facts,looks like some 9.20's might be needed to claim the fastest:Brow:
Bruno and his nailhead powered 65 sounds awesome:beer Would love to see him post his build up in Da Nailhead section of this forum. Just getting started on my 425 and would like to know from someone who's been there done that. A quick Nailhead. Very cool!:TU:
You know guys I knew about Cory and always saw his car run, but I alway thought he was running the aluminum heads. If he's on the steel heads running with no juice he's the king. :TU: I have always mentioned about us guys running these times and always asked for new comers to the group, its just that we never had anymore, so we figured that was all that was out there. I believe we got started on this was some years back when Rob Chilenski and Greg Gessler were in a heated bench racing discussion with some other known Buick Gurus and up to that time at the Nats only the McIntosh ran in the 9's (again Cory's car was never brought up, as I guess everyone figured he was running aluminuml heads and at the time the discussion it was based on a stock frame car) but the Mintosh car was a tube frame car. Both Greg and Rob were convinced that they can build a full framed GS streetable car to run on power in the 9's. Hench that summer I blew up my engine and went to Rob to have another built. My heads were still good and I didn't have the cash flow for the aluminum heads back then. So I worked a part sponsor deal with Rob and Greg that they were going to use my GS as a test mule. The following year at the Nats the first full pass on the new engine netted a 9.98. Since then things sort of snowballed. The car I find amazing is John Massouds because his car is still street legal and yes he does take it out on cruise nights. And Jim, it's not that we are snubbing any Buick powered car even yours as it is running real good times. It's just we started started running quicker times each year and we all had the Skylark bodied car. We built up a friendly competition between us. There is no doubt if your engine in that type of lighten body style would be right up front there. Just like if we stuck our engines in a small lighter and less of a brick type of a car we would all be going much faster. It's just that we preferred to keep the GS bodied cars as they are the most reconized by the generic owners and the easiest to spot (yeah I know they think its a 442:laugh I know Mike TA always busts our chops asking when we will go over to the "aluminum side" I guess once we peek out that day may come. One thing to wonder is, running just a general any style Buick door slammer on Buick power using the steel heads? What would be the fastest time? And Scotty from PG ran the fastest of any 455 Buick in his Pro Stock legal late model Regal running a 7.67 on power. Not to mention one year he bolted an out of a box just matched ported single carb TA intake onto the same engine and car and clicked off an 8.01. That 7.67 still stand today. On closing this long winded reply, we set up goals for ourselves and guys who want to jump in, but the one BIG requirement is attitude. We all stay close and help each other and never snub another Buick racer. It's all about having a good time. And we always welcome new people in. As far as setting up our rule using a GS style bodied cars, well sometimes in life you need a base line constant. We don't by ANY means consider ourselves the best, but in order to have some friendly competition you do have to set up some type of base line rules. Hope this clears some things up, and let me know about Cory's car, has anyone seen it with the steel heads running those times, if he is I will be turning some heat up on my engine push it closer to his times. Cory will be the guy to catch. Rick Martinez
Jim you just answered your own question here. We just set up our own goals and invited anyone in. But doing this by anyway does it mean we snub other Buicks and Buick racers. I have been racing Buicks since I was 16 some 28 years back. And any Buick I see at the track or street I fall in love with and immediately want to be friends with that person. As you pretty much summed it up that we are far and few between and we should stick together, Jim I agree 1,000% with you on that. Jim I never said your car was not a Buick unless it sports Monza tags. I know the cars are basically the same, but I always like to keep things all Buick looking, otherwise I would save a ton of cash and build a cheaper big block Chevy and keep the car as a Monza and join a (ugh the thought) Chevy Club. Actually if I ever get the spare cash I would search for a Monza track car rolling chassis buy it change it over to a Skyhawk and drop in the 455. Just an add on to my reply, Thanks for your input Rick Martinez
Rick I'm almost 100% sure that Cory was using STG 1 heads when going in the .30's.....high eights came with more C I and aluminum heads. If I'm wrong I KNOW I saw Coey go 9.5's with STG 1's.. BTW,How streetable do you guys consider these engines that are filled w/ "hardblok"?I just drove mine to a cruise Saturday and I cringe at the thought of how hot the cylinders get w/o water around them.
Uh oh.. Gary, did you fill it ALL the way up? if so, you prolly cooked the oil at the very least, depending on how many miles you drove. I would be worried about overheating the rings, and having them *relax*. Jim
This is a great thread. I've got to "toot my own horn" here, just a little. I ran a 9.56 at 138.9 mph in the heat at the '99 Nats at National Trail (National Trials and tribulations?) Raceway. This was with my iron stage 1 heads in my GN. And yes my car was a light weight, so I do think that John, Rob, Bruno, and the guys are doing the near impossible in our beloved Buick tanks. Its fun to remember back to the 2000 Nats when I showed up with S2 aluminum heads. Massoud told me that I abandoned the cause and wimped out when I changed. Of course, he was smiling as he said this, and I perfectly understood what he was saying! It is quite a feat to make big power with iron heads, and I think a little friendly rivalry is a good thing. I would also like to say to anyone that might not want to play with the above mentioned guys, but just wants to go fast, the aluminum SE, TE, or S3 heads are great horsepower for the money. Guess what will be interesting around this time next year? When a couple of guys start really moving with the aluminum stage 1 heads, will they be included with our current elite? If you think about it, does anyone distinguish between iron S2 and aluminum S2? Food for thought. Jeff Peoples P S This is what can happen when you get bitten by the Buick racing bug. My Nats history- '96 GS 12.60s - got down to 4 cars in Bracket 2 (BITTEN!) '97 GN 10.20s - same street motor that was in GS '98 GN 9.80s - fresh race S1 '99 GN 9.50s - even hotter S1 '00 GN 9.0s - S2 '01 GN local track 8.90s - S2
Stage 1 Aluminum heads have stage2 intake ports! The exhuast ports are raised and have a gentle turn. They should make as much power as the SE stage2 heads.:eek2:
Ken Montour's 70 Stratomist blue Stage 1 weighs in at over 3900. The car has gone a best of a 10:80 @ 124 MPH in full street trim and full exhaust, with Stage 1 Iron heads. You may have seen Ken's GS set up for and running and winning the "Modified Street Stock" Class at the GS Nationals. Car NEVER hooked and got as bad as a 1:68 60 ft (compared to best 1:48)but ran 11:04 @120 MPH at the Nationals with the "stock" wheels.
