We need to contact Cometic and tell them about the new parts coming for the sbb 350 to see if in they'll make some MLS head gaskets for them! Derek
The lt1's were somewhat hurried into production, serving as the base casting for the vortec. Those were 20 some cfm stronger stock, as they were in development longer. They only appear similar at a glance. I've had those and drastically modified versions on the flow bench. My purpose for relating that to Buicks is that the ports and chambers are light years ahead of the others when it comes to using their shapes to deliver an adequate quantity of well atomized mixture, with the right amount of mixture motion characteristics for the rpm range...which in and of itself are THE major accomplishments of any well ported head. Forget CFM #'s, this is what it's all about. The stock Buick head is pretty good at this already, light years ahead of the gen 1 chevy. The new head is a clean slate.
I feel where your coming from about the millennial thing, I hate to admit it but I'm technically a millennial. I don't fit the stereotype though. I'm not scared of driving any vehicle I have owned to its limit. In my opinion new cars are way overpriced. They do some amazing things but you can make an old Buick do amazing things for less. A 500+HP Big Block Buick Skylark can be built for 30k, not half ass built either. Name a new car that makes that power for that money. I cannot think of one. Pure fun a hopped up old car can't be beat. New cars have a lot of fluff with the bells and whistles. My wife likes them, I could care less, just more crap to break, and more crap I'll have to try and fix or have someone fix later. What I would do with a Stage 1 455 car is go piss off as many Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers etc as possible. Its kind of like combative tournaments I use to be in the Army, no weight brackets. So when I had to fight a guy bigger then me, the expectation was I would lose. I would give those big guys hell, some I won some I lost. When I won though everyone was surprised. That's the appeal of my Skylark to me. When I bought it with its slightly hopped up 350 I went and gave it hell until it started acting up. It pissed of some older mustangs, your 2010 and older set ups. They would just stare in disbelieve when my ratty Skylark with mismatch paint and body damage just destroyed their car. People would underestimate it, it's the under dog. I will always be a sucker for the underdog. Now it has a new heart with a 462. It still has a long way to go but will see how many people it can piss off once I get it dialed in.
Already been through that fiasco... Bill Mah had Cometic make Buick 350 head gaskets, that is what they used on the 1021 HP engine and when I called them it turns out it was another under the table custom deal they got so the gaskets never really officially existed. They said I would have to buy at least 10 sets at about $250 per set and pay them $400 in setup time to make the gaskets so that was a dead end. That is where we found "gaskets to go" and I think they actually made a very nice MLS head gasket for a good price... We can order more from them anytime. Now that Scotty Brown also has the MLS we have a few options. But I agree with Jim the felpros are fine for NA use.
I myself prefer to be the underdog also. I was thinking of this the other day, the Stage 1 VS Hemi race from years ago REALLY got Buick noticed, and put a thorn in the side of Mopar fans. Then the '86/'87 GN, same thing, only with Ford this time, THAT was easy! Buick got noticed for putting the smack down on supposedly untouchable musclecars. I feel because of the Stage 1 455 VS Hemi and the '86/'87 GN from "back then" Buick is respected as far as a performance vehicle. Yeah a lot of Chevy's and Mopars command more money at auction, but the Buick is still a respected underdog
The Scott Brown head gaskets are NOT multi layered steal head gaskets, they are a graphite composite with an imbedded steal fire ring. Although a decent gasket, they are limited because they can only be bought with the .050" compressed thickness, so with the new heads the pistons would have to be setup .005" to .010" out of the hole to utilize the quench pad in the combustion chamber. Cometic makes the MLS head gaskets for the Buick v6 because there is aftermarket support for that engine, now that parts are starting to be made for the sbb 350, Cometic might eventually consider making them for the sbb 350? Or perhaps another gasket manufacturer? Although the fel-pro blue head gaskets are a decent head gasket, there is the disclaimer that they aren't "race" gaskets. Mark will need to keep an eye on those gaskets when he starts test and tuning because they may eventually fail. Been there done that with that gasket on a mostly street occasionally strip car that burned thru to another cylinder on one side, can't recall which side its been a while. They did last a couple years though so......... Watch if the QM times lose a 1/2 second or so all of a sudden and monitor the but dyno for power decreases. Derek
Good info Derek! I'm going to have to keep a MUCH closer eye on my tune for sure. When I get to the point of running, you guys be ready for more questions KKKKKKK, I'm gonna run my new combo with my irons till I get my aluminum's. So basically I'm replacing the cast rods with forged Molnar..... should be no diff. as far as performance. Forged pistons with low tension rings..... maybe a smidge increase, we'll see. Balancing, rotating assy. will be happier. Sooooo many things to consider!
On my GN I ran Graphite Victor's 28lbs of boost daily driven and seen 30+lbs more times than it should, we have ran some LS's with some pretty gnarly amounts of spray with them as well, messy to clean up when it comes time to replace. On nitrous setups alot of guys run regular ole Felpros and Victor's as a "relief valve" . Cometics are picky as far as surface prep, usually putting them on an engine that's been together is risky, I had to put thin smear of sealer around water on my dad's car. But at the same time I've put probably 20 set of LS9 MLS gaskets on LS's that I've done head and cam swaps and never had an issue. Just some feedback for anyone reading.
Like I said "gaskets to go" made us custom MLS gaskets we could order more anytime.. I know for a fact they were true MLS.
My .02 on multi-layer steel head gaskets.. Great for the Tomahawk, that has head bolts all the way around the cylinders, like most engines do.. with smooth surfaces and enough head bolts they work well.. I used them on a very nice race motor I did here in 04 when they first came out for the 455... about 3 years later, that motor was in for some changes, and I pulled the heads, and could see the evidence of compression leakage up into the valley.. right where the iron block is missing head bolts. That's a 13-1 motor so, ok, Maybe those are better on low compression motors.. some time later, I was talking to Mike at TA, and he was explaining how he drills the rivets out on those gaskets, separates the layers, and uses sealer on each layer.. Ya, ok, sign me up for that nitemare.. NOT.. I have stuck with composition gaskets since then, on dozens and dozens of 455's, and without extenuating circumstances, we have had no gasket issues. I strongly believe that for NA, lower compression applications, a composition gasket from TA or one of the major gasket companies is the way to go. JW
Glad to hear it Mark. I still have my 71 350 in my garage. So I am interested to see if I will be investing in the aluminum heads for it eventually. I'm really leaning toward playing with a twin turbo set up though. I am honestly considering dropping it in a off road blazer or bronco. If I went twin turbo and found a set of well ported irons when someone upgrades, the boost doesn't care it's aluminum or iron its forcing its air down. I will be interested to see what a NA Buick 350 with aluminum heads running on pump gas can do getting all the potential out of it. I'm guessing 500 HP will be achievable NA messing with stroker set ups and the correct roller cam and CFM flow. I also thought about this thread more after I responded. I guess when I get return on some of my investments and have some serious coin I'll have to upgrade to a Tomahawk block and some seriously worked stage 2 heads or just buy some Wildcats to replace the 462 Girdled block that just has TA stage 1 SE heads. Crazy that type of set up used to be close to the best you could do with a BBB. Or maybe not who knows if I'll ever get the car to really lay down all that power like I want it to anyway. Maybe just a roller cam and fuel injection is all it could handle. Or I'll just have to buy a race only car so I can use all the power my potential serious coin can buy. All the possibilities .
Well if the new TA heads that come out flow right out of the box what well ported heads do, then it will matter even with forced induction on how well the engine will run. Set it up with the ported aluminums when running boost will mean that your N/A HP will start out higher which means you can make even more power with less boost! Maybe use some of that investment down fall $$ on a sbb stroker billet crank, the mythical white whale aluminum heads, the sbb 350 girdle with a ton of boost and see what you can make with the little sbb with the factory block before you move to the BBB aftermarket block? Fun stuff!! Plenty of nascar take out rods to achieve the above build as well that leaves you with more $$ for more go fast stuff. Here is a thread that uses a set of nascar take out rods with the bolts that came with them running super charger boost with a factory crank stroked to 3.990"!; http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/the-dyno-numbers-are-in.200499/ GL Derek
Being I own a Turbo Buick also, I have read the Turbo forums for awhile now. Yes its true, a turbo will mask/cover up a heads lack of flow via pressure, but yes, a nice ported set of heads no matter the material, will flow that pressurized atmosphere much easier
Yes for sure... My old car with stock non ported heads and a 9:1 350 cubic inch setup with Poston 114 cam would be about 280 hp on a good day NA and with 10 psi of boost it did 550 HP... But then if a person had 400 HP NA with some better flowing heads it would be easy to make a lot more...
Much more air is being moved through the engine per PSI of boost with freer flowing components. Which of course = mo powah. Not all boost is created equal.
SCE makes copper gaskets, and they have the patterns for both the 340 and 350. Cost me about $170 total for a set .050" thick including setup so I'd think they could beat that price now that they've done them once. I know they have the 350's too because they sent me those first by mistake. Jim
I recall you used the felpro high performance gaskets on that 1017 hp procharged big block and there were no signs of head gasket failure on that engine.
