PS Belt Contacts TA WP - Live With it? FlowKooler WP? Auto Parts Store WP?

A familiar problem:

While mocking up the accessories on the 455 that will replace the 350 in my ‘72 Skylark, I discovered that the power steering pump belt contacts the underside of my TA “Short” water pump body. At first, it was due to my use of an incorrect crank pulley and power steering mounting bracket (from my 350). Thanks to the advice/support from you forum members, especially “hugger”, I now have what I believe is the correct combination of pulleys and PS pump brackets installed on the engine.

Unfortunately, the PS belt still lightly touches the water pump. As you can see in the attached pictures, it doesn’t appear as though the contact is causing the belt to deflect down or forward, though …at least when the engine isn’t running.

I had to use the shortest PS belt that would fit (without having to resort to modifying bracket adjustment slots, removing the PS pulley, etc. to install it) to minimize contact: Gates XL7490 (13/32” x 49-5/8”). The bad news is that as soon as it becomes necessary to adjust the pump to compensate for belt stretch, it will rub the WP even harder.

Here’s what I have now in the way of front-end accessories, etc:

-TA Perf 1970-72 GS fan shroud #TA2040D
-TA Perf TA1537BHP “short body” high performance water pump (which matches the fan shroud size)
-P/N 1375143 3-groove crank pulley (two grooves @ 7-3/8” dia, one at 5-3/4” dia)
-P/N 1375146 2-groove WP pulley
-The PS pump and pulley from my 350 engine

NOTE: The pulley combo is correct for 1970 A-body with AC, although I deleted my AC.

Here’s what I think my choices are:

1 – Live with it, but frequently inspect for WP damage and excessive/unusual belt wear. (Sounds a little like a ticking time bomb to me).
2 – R&R my expensive TA hi-perf WP with a slightly less expensive P/N 1618 (3-1/4” tall w/o AC) FlowKooler high flow WP.
3 – R&R with an auto-parts-store aftermarket new replacement, or even a rebuilt OE-type (and hope for the best).

Here’s where you all come in:

A - Did any of you go with the “Live with it” option on yours? How did it work out?

B - Did any of you use the FlowKooler 3-1/4” (i.e., “short”) WP? How did it work out?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

 

I ground just a bit of the pump corner off and slotted the PS adjust a little and replaced with a slightly shorter belt. IIRC

 

I'm not familiar with A-body engine compartments and how everything is placed but is it possibe to use a different PS pump bracket like say from a Riv and drop the pump down a bit? That way it changes the angle of the belt and it won't rub at all.

 

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate you taking the time.

BuickV8Mike: I read that in your response to .... http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?th...rubbing-me-the-wrong-way.325488/#post-2722036.
I tried to visualize what would happen if I did the same on my set-up. If my "visualization" was correct, doing so will make only a tiny change to the position of the PS pump and belt. I'm keeping that option open, though.

1969RIVI: If only... Here's the lowdown on Buick BB pulleys...
http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/455pulleybrkts.htm
http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/ps.htm

 

Yeh I see the issues, that's too bad. You may just have to grind a bit of the pump like mentioned before. Oddly enough the majority of people on here have A-body cars and it seems like this doesn't happen often?

 

I am running a FlowKooler water pump on a 1970 455 no ac engine no fitment issues. Let me know if you want a picture or measurements.
Jim

 

1969RIVI - Yes, this seems to only be a problem with some of the TA "short" high performance pump and matching pulleys. Tolerance stack-up between brackets, components, etc, maybe?

 

Thanks Jim.

If possible, a side shot from the PS pump showing water pump-to-PS belt clearance would be helpful and appreciated. I assume you have the 3-1/4" (short) P/N 1618 hi-flow pump for early 430 and 455 engines?

 

Picture posted in the previous message. I will have to verify the water pump numbers. Its been on there a couple years.

Jim

 

Dan, I'm running the same TA pump and the smaller billet aluminum pullies. I know using the Riv PS bracket is out of the question so maybe look into getting the smaller pullies that may change the angle of the belt just enough to stop the rubbing?

 

Is that the only ps bracket available? Seems like a needlessly long ps belt. This pic looks like it has a steel bracket, mounted lower with shorter belt.

 

What steel ps brackets are you using? The pump position looks strange,...

 

Suggestion and I dont know if it would work but could the pump brackets be lowered down to the lowest bolt hole on the head. I see a bolt there that looks to have noting attached to it. Would probably require drilling a new upper hole in the bracket. Some shims or spacer may be required

 

Here are a couple of pictures of my ps brackets and water pump.





Good Luck
Mike

 

No need to butcher it up,..

 

Thanks Jim. Judging from the photo, your's is the P/N 1618 3-1/4" (short) water pump. No need to dig up the part number.
It looks good, by the way.

Hello Hugger. I purchased the P/N ST5192S brackets from Parts Place. [Described as "POWER STEERING STAMPED STEEL BRACKETS - (2 PC) THIS IS TWO OUT OF THE THREE 400/455 POWER STEERING BRACKETS THAT ARE THE HARDEST TO FIND. ALL YOU WOULD NEED IS THE TRIANGULAR BRACKET, WHICH IS THE SAME ON 350/400/455 ENGINES. OUR PART (1378150)" on thepartsplaceinc.com]. Photos attached.

Maybe it looks "strange" because my power steering pump has the banjo-shaped reservoir (as opposed to the pump with the more common "ham can" shaped reservoir)??? This pump is the OE pump from my Skylark (350 cu in). I included a not-very-good photo of the pump installed on my B-350 engine for reference ("FAUX GSX Eng.jpg").

Hello Briz. I don't understand your reference to a bolt with nothing attached to it, so I attached a photo of the unpainted aluminum PS bracket that's attached to the painted-red cylinder head ("PS Pump Brkt Inst - Look Up View - Zoom.jpg"). Maybe that will help us both.

I assume that the pump is purposely positioned high to avoid contact with the steering box??? I won't know for sure until the engine is installed in my Skylark, though.

Hello Mart. I don't believe that I've ever seen those PS pump brackets installed on a BBB in a 70-72 Skylark/GS. That bracket appears to have two unused (?) tabs on the topside, btw. I wonder what they're for?

I used the PS pump brackets from my B-350 when I first mocked-up the front end accessories using my collection of brackets and pulleys (see "PS Pump - Small Block Brackets on 455.jpg" photo). It looked much better but the belt-contacting-WP condition was even worse. I was also using an incorrect crank pulley, so maybe that contributed to the problem. I plan on trying out the SBB PS brackets again prior to removing all of the accessories in preparation for installing the engine in the Skylark. Who knows? It may just work out with the correct crank pulley.

I keep thinking that there was a good reason that Buick positioned the pump so high and off to the left of the cylinder head, though. We shall see.

Thank you all. I really appreciate the help.

 

Thanks Mike. Looks pretty good. As noted above, I'm keeping that option open.

 

Thats all the correct stuff,..at this point I would just file some clearance in that rib

 

That rib is MUCH harder than it looks. Ha Ha Ha. Cutoff wheel is a dremel is my recommendation.

 

This is the pump set up on the Riv. You can see that it sits much lower in the car and closer to the engine. In your latest pics I can see now how your current set up is attached and I dont see any way to modify it. I may have another one of these pump brackets.