Powerjection III Install and Review

Id love to get my hands on a projection system for cheap. . . .

I think the walbro is a bit more pump than the quadrajet needs even with a regulator. It would be wiser to put a low pressure pump on and a basic regulator designed for carbs than to run a 40+ psi pump down to 4 psi for a quadrajet. They need good volume, not lots of pressure. You will be bleeding off so much fuel at the regulator to maintain 4psi your volume may suffer. Im not sure about that but its a concern that I might have.

 

Well, after much ado, I've finally gotten the PJ III system back on the car and running. I redid the fuel system in the engine room as the PJ FPR sucks and I didn't like the way it was positioned in the car. I'll take some pics this afternoon of the lines I made. Again, I can't sing the praises of fuel injection enough. I took the car out for a test drive and good god this boat is fast. And I tell you, nothing beats the feeling of kicking the ass end of this huge car out when going around corners and chirping second gear when winding out the engine. Still need to do some tuning, but all in all it's nice to have it back up and running again.

 

Good to hear! Fatten up that torque curve some more =D I forget, can that setup control timing?

 

I don't know. I vaguely remember them saying they were working on something that would add ignition tunability but I don't know. I'll take a video once I get it all running properly. Also, something it did the first time and is doing again, when decelerating, between 1600-1400 rpms, it surges a few times until the rpm gets below 1400. What would cause that?

 

Surges on de-accel? Hmm, if you can look at the fuel map, look at the high vacuum portion of it and see if there are any bumps in the fuel settings in that rpm range. I try and cut all fuel on de-accel, but if it goes from no fuel to just a little bit and back to no fuel it'll engine brake funny. It could also be some kind of programming to keep it from stalling on de-accel.

Until I upgrade the firmware in my MS2, I have the de-accel cut programmed into the fuel map table (the newer firware has it built in) so that at high vacuum (that I specify) it cuts fuel, but if I don't ramp the fuel back in before idle rpm the inertia of the de-accelerating engine will stall it. So around 1200 is where I start adding fuel back in, maybe your's is programmed in around 1500rpm to prevent stalling?

Those are my guesses.

 

only projection one controls timming/spark control..
They have the fuel on demand addon for the pj III (sounds like it makes it a returnless) but actual timming control hasnt come out that i know of

 

Thanks. A lot of that sounded like Greek to me, but I think I have the basic idea of what you're saying.
I might keep playing around with it after work, but I went ahead and ordered an SP1 intake. That should be here next week. It sounds silly, but I bought it mainly to get the third temp sensor hole, so I can run my gauge, dummy light, AND the sensor for the PJ III. Plus, it has a square bore mounting pad vs the spreadbore one that the EB has.

 

Funny you should mention the temp sensor. On my t-bird I'm not currently monitoring temps :*( because the stock FE intake has only one port for the temp sensor. It's not terrible for driving around town and I plug my laptop in for long drives and monitor it from there, but I'd like the dash gauge to work as well. It's a motivator for getting a new intake =P

 

Any updates? I've been away from v8buick for awhile, wondering how this is going.:beer

 

Well, i got my new intake, but it only had two sensor holes...I could SWEAR that it had one in the rear of the intake, but I get not. Oh well.

 

I got the new SP-1 intake on last night with the composite intake gaskets and the modified valley pan. Got everything tighetened up and got the car started. The PJ system is still acting wierd. I just cannot get it to idle right, same problem as before. Plus, the injectors sounds noisy? It's like they're spitting instead of misting. I'm seeing decent vacuum at idle in park, 12-13", and around 9" in drive. However, when I tried to drive it, it was NOT acting rigth at all, it wouldn't accelerate at all. I'll recheck the timing and make sure the vacuum advance is working today. One thing I did notice was that it was switching between the idle and decel fuel tables while in park...and I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be doing that. I'm going to call up Retrotek this afternoon and see if they can help me troubleshoot. HOPEFULLY, i won't have to send the throttle body BACK in to them. We'll see though.
Oh, IMO, the SP-1 just looks awesome sitting on top of this engine. LOL.

 

Make sure none of your spark plug wires are crossing the retrotek's wiring. Sounds like it has electrical noise in the TPS circuit (or all circuits), tricking it into thinking the throttle is moving. You may be able to change the hysterics(?) on how sensitive the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is to movement. On the MegaSquirt I can, so if electrical noise is causing accel/deaccel issues at idle or cruise, I can bump up how sensitive it's response is. Of course if the noise is excessive it'll block out readings of actual movement on the TPS and get no enrichment when I'd want it.

Hmm, my SPX intake has at least three water/temp ports.

 

why not just drill and tap your existing manifold for a 1/2" NPT (pipe thread) port? also some modern cars have 2 sending signals out of one port.
The sending unit I have for my megasquirt is from a chevy caviler and has 3 wires out of it. One is for the original computer and the other is for the gauge.

 

I should clarify, it has 3 ports total. For some reason I thought there were 3 plus the one for the heater hose port. Oh well, i don;t really NEED the dummy light anyway.
None of my plug wires are anywhere close to the powerjection wiring. Good to know about the hysterics. I'll be sure to ask about that when i call Retrotek.

 

I had bad luck using the heater port for a sending unit. It would take forever to warm up unless I had the heater turned on. I did however have a "T" there to continue to use the heater.

 

Well, that was interesting. Of course, when i got home and tried to call Retrotek for some help, those bastages decided to cut out of work an hour before closing time, so no help for me. Anyway, I decided to check the timing, vacuum, etc and everything was fine. Got it started and took it for a drive. Still rough but got to do some acceleration tests and it seemed like things were getting better. But, then the idle went back to crap and it stated running rough again. Then as I was getting to drive home, I heard the loudest BANG I've ever heard. I thought maybe I had dropped a piston but the car kept running fine, oil pressure was fine, no metallic crunching noises, nothing. Got home, turned it off. Let it set for a few minutes and started it back up and it started and ran fine. This car is never going to cut me a break.

 

Still not running right...my alternator doesn't seem to be charging a full 14.4V. I'm only seeing around 13 at idle. I took it to Autozone to get tested and they said everything was good. None of the wiring has changed, everything is grounded.
The engine seems to run much better when I see 14.4V. I'm also hearing a ticking from up front somewhere. Sounds like it might be coming from the timing cover, but can't see to isolate it.
Sigh, this car hates me.

 

a few questions.
does your fuel pressure drop between 14.4 and 13v?
when running, what is the voltage at the fuel pump (between it's ground near the pump and it's 12V lead)

are you getting 13v at the battery?
have you checked your voltage at idle directly off of the alternator (assuming your using an upgraded internally regulated alternator)
you are using an internally regulated alternator arn't you?

nate

 

Yes, the fuel pressure does drop at lower voltage, which I think is part of the problem. I'm using a Powermaster 140 Amp alternator and the voltage at the terminal was 13.3 where the voltage at the battery was 13.2.

 

I love old cars...so I decided to try to go over everything one more time. I noticed I was mistaken about the fuel pressure dropping with the lower voltage, so I was still getting proper fuel pressure even at 13V. I DID notice that the alt belt was moving A LOT. It had about 1.5 deflection when i would push on it, which didn't seem extreme. The issue is, I couldn't get it any tighter by hand. I had to use a crowbar to pull the alternator as tight against the belt as i could and then tighten the bolts. After I did that, I'm seeing 14.4V again. Could it be that my belt has stretched? It's practically a new belt, and it still looks fine. I took her out for a drive and she drive perfect. She only stumbled 4 times, and it's still surging when i decelerate from 1500-1300rpm, but other than that. Also, Just having the wipers and lights on brought the charging voltage down from 14.4 to 14V...is this normal? Anyway, she seems like she's starting to smooth out the more I drive her and it's readily apparent that voltage plays a major factor in how she runs. Anyway, I'm going to attempt to drive her again this week and see how she does.

Now all I need to do is get my new side rail weatherstrip and align the windows so i don't have gaps to let in all the rain we've been getting.

On a side note, does anyone know a good vinyl top treatment? As winter approaches, I don't think I'm going to have the time or money to get a new top, which she desperately needs, so I would like to at least treat it so it holds up to the weather as best she can. Thanks.