Please help me tune my Holley

Discussion in 'Holley' started by CameoInvicta, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    It's got a universal aluminum radiator and electric fan w/shroud from Jegs. Newer 180* thermostat (replaced it last year), and a newer 17lbs radiator cap. This combo should have no problem keeping it cool.

    Also, it doesn't matter if I'm crusing back roads at 30mph, or the highway at 50mph, it still gets hot.

    I'll definitely check the timing, and will change the oil. I actually have a case of Royal Purple waiting to be put in - I was going to do it last week but never had time

    Plugs are stock Champions (RJ12YC). I considered Water Wetter or Purple Ice, however I'm fairly confident this thing should be able to stay cool on it's own, and don't want to use a crutch if I don't have to.

    Thanks for that hose tip. I actually used it once or twice yesterday, cooled it off nicely!
     
  2. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    Andy, on a side note you need to quit the long one-wheel burnouts. It absolutely eats up the side gears, spider gears and the cross shaft in the rear end.

    Devon
     
  3. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    How many rows of tubes are in the Rad,,, you need 4 to cool a big engine with accessories,,, and a fan shroud and 6 or 7 blade fan..... and that rad has to be clean and able to hold a pressure of 20 psi....
    If you dont have all that , cooling the engine will be iffey.....
     
  4. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    I've heard nothing but good things about Royal Purple. I'll probably run it and maybe switch later down the road.

    That's what people have told me about the champions. Maybe I'll swap those out down the road as well.

    Interesting, I think I've got 1/4 to 1/2 a tank. I'll dump a few gallons a race gas in it and see what happens. I do not believe they are an extended tip spark plug.
     
  5. Phil

    Phil It really *is* a 350...

    Yep. I grenaded my rear end in the driveway one day goosing the throttle after decorating the pavement with one of those "looonnnggg" peg-leg patches.

    I was just glad it grenaded in the driveway.
     
  6. Phil

    Phil It really *is* a 350...

    Over the years I've tried Bosch, Accell, Champion, Motorcraft (yeah.. sorry) and always came back to AC plugs. Havent tried NGKs.
     
  7. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    I think I solved my overheating issues. With a new 160* thermostat, it idles a lot cooler, although I haven't had a chance to take it for a cruise yet.

    In terms of the one wheel burnouts, define grenade. I don't want to put a posi in if I don't have to right now, but I do grenade it I can just pull the third member and swap in a posi unit.
     
  8. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Andy,,, take the car by a radiator shop and let them run a sniffer test to see if there is combustion gas in the cooling system....and then run a compression test to be sure that you dont have a popped head gasket....or cracked head or block....
     
  9. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    I think I might have to. Took it out, let it idle in the driveway first. Got up to 190-200* in the driveway. Really quick cruise, only like a 5min jaunt, in that time it got up to 210*, by the time I got back home it was at 220*. Didn't get hotter than that though.

    Haven't tried any race gas, or checked the timing. Will do that first. Going to take a few days off from the car - it's been testing my patience as of late.
     
  10. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Yep, what guy says,,,,
    Look, timing can, if really far off, affect the engine heat, and make one run hot,,,, that said,,, there is some things that will not affect the heat, one way or the other....
    what spark plugs you run doesnt matter, except if a plug is hitting or not, a hitting plug fires the cyl and generates heat... a non hitting plug doesnt....
    water pumps can and do affect heat... as does pully diameter.... oil type doesnt enough to matter....
    coolant circulation does matter,,,, I have seen everything from tobacco to cornmeal to rat nests to stop leak stuff crammed into radiators to stop leaks,,, they stop leaks alright but they also plug up the radiator and the heater core...
    enough rows of tubes is critical to running cool,,, 4 is a must,,, later custom rads get by with 3 by using bigger tubes and more cooling fins....
    a good working fan shroud is a must,,,, a 7 blade fan is a must,,, I am still undecided about fan clutches, I have seen too many of them come apart and the fan go thru the rad....
    If a car does not have a fan shroud, the fan blade has to be within 1/2 to 3/4 inch of the back of the radiator and centered... or the engine will run hot...
    a carb cannot make a engine run hot of its self,,, changing it may just bring out a problem that already exhists....
    Combustion gas getting into the cooling system will make one run hot quick, as will the impeller coming off the shaft inside of the water pump....
    a sticking thermostat will heat an engine up quick.... and the suction side lower hose has to have a ''spring'' inside it to keep it from sucking flat and restricting the flow.... that will make a engine run hot quick....
    but all that said,,, the main way an engine gets hot is lack of coolant circulation or restricted air circulation.....:Brow: :Brow:
    As a side note , you can improve a water pumps efficency by brazing a sheet metal disk the same diameter as the impellers to the back side of the impellers... have to be carefull though and not get the assembly too thick or it will hit the front of the timing gear cover when it heats up.....
    I once saw a car heating up fast after a mechanic installed a new rad ,,, turned out that he had left one of the plastic shipping plugs in the inlet....another similar incident had a shop rag in the system.... but first test the system to see if it holds pressure or sniffer test,,,, and then check circulation with the cap off to see if it is good....
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  11. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Well, I said I was taking a break, but I lied :laugh: .

    Went and got 4 gallons of 110 octane race gas. As it sits right now, it's got roughly half 92 octane and half 110.

    Now I'm not sure if this is a new problem, however, I did find a fairly large vacuum leak under the carb. I do not recall seeing this in the past few days (and I've spent alot of time under the hood this week), however I could just be a complete idiot and have totally missed it. A substantial vacuum leak can cause overheating, as far as I'm aware. I'm going to try and pickup a new carb gasket tomorrow and see how it does.

    Also, can you have a blown head gasket and NOT get ANY coolant in your oil? I've changed the oil two times recently and there wasn't a trace of coolant in it.
     
  12. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Yes you can have a popped head gasket and not get water in the oil....I have also seen oil get into the cooling system....and head gaskets blown between cyls... and to the outside.... and so on....
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010
  13. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Ok guys, I'll pull each plug and take a look.

    Either last year, or the year before when I put in the radiator I completely flushed the system, foreward and backward. Also, the water pump is two or three years old.

    I do have a seperate trans cooler mounted in from of the radiator.

    Also, in terms of coolant, is there a better coolant mix than 50/50? That's what I've been running, in the premixed jugs.
     
  14. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Pulled the carb and replaced the gaskets below and above the adapter. The vacuum leak should be fixed.

    I pulled each plug. Everything looked good to me. Attached are pics.

    Plug 1 & 3.

    [​IMG]

    Plug 5 & 7.

    [​IMG]

    Plug 2 & 4.

    [​IMG]

    Plug 6 & 8.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Ok, so vacuum leak is fixed. Car idled in the driveway for about 40min while I again burped the cooling system. Hung out at around 160* for a while, then 170* for a while, then 180* for quite a bit. Finally after the 40min of idling in the driveway it was at 200*. Never got hotter than that.

    I went ahead and cooled it down with the hose. Got it to about 160-170*. Hopped in for a quick 5min spin. Fairly quickly it got up to 180*, then 190*, then by then time I pulled back in the driveway it was at 210*.

    So I dunno what's up. The top radiator hose has a little kink in it, due to the way it's routed, so I'm going to get a different hose. I still think I might have a bit of air in the system too.

    So it's better, but still not ideal.
     
  16. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    spark plugs 4-5-6-7 have some erosion of the j-strap.... how many miles on those plugs????? autolite would serve you better.... they are a tougher plug... and fire at a higher pressure....
    can you get your hands on one of those laser thermomiters,,,, you can take a reading at each exhaust manifold port and tell which cyls are fireing at what temp....
    i would like to see a picture of the rad, fan, ect and the front of the engine.... is the fan shroud wrapping completely around the fan blade, or is it open at the bottom like some are..... How much space is between the tips of the blades and the fan shroud????
    Well, I goobered ,,,, got the plug numbers wrong in my reply,,,,, ck the numbers and see if there is a pattern there....
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010
  17. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Probably less than 100 miles. Ok, since everyone keeps saying change the plugs, I'll change the plugs. Probably either Autolite's or NGK's.

    I can try and get my hands on one, probably have to purchase it though. Can't think of anybody that has one near me.

    Here are the pics Doc. The fan is electric, and the whole radiator is covered by the shroud, except the 16in circle cut out for the fan.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm thinking the hose could be the main factor, since the temp at idle is pretty decent, and it's only when you increase airflow (driving at 30-40mph) that it gets even hotter.

    I just hacked up the factory style molded hose (I'm running a flex one right now) and inserted a piece of tubing between the two cut pieces. Should fit much better w/o any kinks or restrictions.
     
  18. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    OOOOk,,,, first off, the upper hose is a ''universal'' type and all those ridges have the effect of slowing down and restricting the flow... you need a smooth type hose that matches the lower hose....also it looks like it needs to be some bigger around....
    Now , the fan assembly looks small to me for a big block,,,, btw, a nail head is a big block too from 364 cu. in. on up.... ,,,,, you probably would do better with 2 smaller ones or a larger one like comes on a lincoln or tbird, or truck.... but I see that you will have a clearance problem with the nose of the water pump.....consider moving the rad to the front some more,,, you need at least 2500 cfm on your fan.... or go back to the stock set up.... also it looks like you dont have the smallest diameter water pump,,, the car is not a/c so you could put a smaller ac car water pump pulley on and speed up the water pump quite a bit... makes a difference.... your right that hard left turn on the upper hose is a major restrictionl.... I think if you change the upper hose for a factory type , you will accomplish a lot.... once you reach the tipping point where the rad/fan/waterpump can shed more heat ,even if it is just a little more , than the engine generates,,,, your problem will fade.... and if you will hook up the water pump to the heater core, that will cool some more , even if you arnt using the heater,,, the water going back to the heater core cools the engine some ... acts like a heat sink.... and cools some on the way to and from the heater......just some ideas....
     
  19. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Yea, I know that hose isn't ideal, I needed a hose ASAP and that's the only hose any local auto parts store had in stock. I've got the new setup all ready to go in. I've seen people use small tubing/exhaust pipe in combo with radiator hose before, so assuming I've got the clamps tight, this thing should NOT blow apart where the tubing meets the hose, correct?

    In terms of the fan, it's rated at 2200cfm. You can put your hand in front of the radiator and feel A LOT of air being pulled, way more than you could feel with the stock 4 blade setup. Obviousley more air flow is better, but the current electric fan is MUCH better than what was on there.

    You are correct, it's got the big non A/C pulley on it. I'll definitely consider sourcing an A/C pulley if it still runs hot.

    The heater core is no longer in the car. I've had it recored two times in the last 4 or 5 years. It's such a pain in the butt to change, and I never use the heat, so I did away with it once and for all :grin: .

    Thanks for all the tips and suggestions Doc! I'm thinking once I change the hose, it should definitely help.

    In terms of the plugs, should I go a step colder? What would the part number be for a colder plug in terms of an Autolite or NGK? I know the standard Autolite's are 85's, and NGK's are XR4's.

    Thanks again for all the help guys!
     
  20. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think you are correct. A NGK XR5 is colder than a XR4. That website is very informative, thanks for posting that!

    Hmm, I might have to try adding water to the 50/50 mix I already have in there. Or just going to straight water with an additive.

    I had thought about the shroud causing a problem. That will be on the to do list to test.

    Yes, that's the hose that did go to the heater core. I'll put that on the list to check as well.
     

Share This Page