Paris

As usual, the West is going to sit around and do some more navel-gazing before it springs into action. In the meantime, thousands of innocent people will die.

Airstrikes don't work; - I would have thought WW2, Vietnam and the Yugoslav wars would have proved that. There needs to be boots on the ground. The only way both the Japanese and the Germans were brought to heel was through a benevolent occupation. Lots of boots on the ground who take no crap, and then as things begin to improve a slight loosening of the frat laws to foster cooperation. In the meantime, the offending ideology or faith as was the Japanese case, is banned outright. It's debunked, proven for lies, and the perpetrators strung up like the common criminals they are and then you start to win over the minds of the people.

That's the only thing that will stop this, take them out, all the way, and if means tossing some nukes, so be it. Extreme prejudice, that's all these people know. And another thing; why haven't any moderates ever spoke out on our behalf? Because there is no moderation in Islam, and there is no assimilation into other cultures. It's their way or the highway; and there is no way one can beat that with "dialog" and diplomacy. Roll the tanks, get the boots out there, and be ruthless, just like your ancestors were with mine back in WW2.

 

ou:

 

Re: The hard truth about modernity (Re: Paris)

Word salad of the first order. Xtianity had its day to shine many centuries ago, culminating with the Inquisition. Islam isn't "surging because our track record is every bit as mediocre as I have described it", it is their reaction to the west's interference in their affairs. They have been killing each other in the ME for Millennia (xtian, muslim, some sort of orthodoxy). We should have kept out of the ME, starting with the time after WW1, (and partition) making unnatural divisions of the tribes already in existence. The sticking point is the light sweet crude oil that the ME has (had?!) in abundance, which the West wanted. That's the reality. If we had let them do what they do, we wouldn't be in this situation. OK, I don't like the way women are treated there, etc. We don't have to be the "global sheriff", ESPECIALLY under the xtian banner.

Secularism is in ascendance because of the observation by rational people that the religious zealots are ruining it for everybody.

 

Having been to Paris twice this year with work, I can tell you they are a wonderful people with tremendous culture. They simply aren't deserving of such an attack. My heartfelt sympathies to the people of Paris.

 

Edouard, you've missed the boat on this one. Islam is not interested in our "goodies", and yes, they perceive that they have the moral right, but like any group on this planet, they are no better or worse than anyone else. If anything, worse, they treat women like property and have a peculiar disdain for children and innocents. Life to them is only to serve the will of Allah, so they don't need gameboys or TVs or anything. The problem is it's a person who interprets and speaks for Allah, and Allah tends to be very unforgiving and intolerant of others.

You're looking at apples and oranges here, and before anyone accuses me of being racist, read on. These are a people who culturally work for no one; - they are a culture of patriarchal small business, the Arab equivalent of "machismo", and they do not train their people to be employees or work for a common good. It's a dog-eat-dog cutthroat existence, and as such, they lose human compassion and empathy, because it's all about screwing the other guy out of money. The only thread that holds them together is the mosque; and family. They work for family, then strike out on their own. Ever wonder why it is so hard to get an Arab to work for you? It's because he finds employment the same as indentured servitude, and the only one he'll do that for is his father or family. This is why they will never integrate, and this is one of the reasons they find us so repellent. We are a nation of people who are taught to value hard work, get ahead through employment, and we work to better our society. Family, while important, comes at the expense of the job, education among other things. They are not; they see the survival and the multiplication of the family as paramount. Religion holds them all together, and unlike our society which shed the confines of orthodoxy about 500 years ago, they do not. The Koran tells you how to live, and the mullahs or imans reinforce it. That most are the sons of uneducated sheep herders is irrelevant; education to them is the Koran, everything else is secondary. We approach things a little differently.

Islam had its high water mark back in the the first millennia. They were the centre for learning while Christian Europe was a filthy backwater. The only thing that we did then was build magnificent churches, they were actually playing around with science, and technology. Then, as usual, religion interfered and that was over. It took the Spaniards 500 years to get rid of the Moors; that's how entrenched they were. Since Islam was founded, their idea has been to convert and subjugate. They keep harping back to the Crusades, that was different; Christianity was ostensibly trying to "liberate" the Holy Land from the Muslim boot. In the end, it didn't work out too well for them, and in fact, one crusade failed miserably in the sense that it was redirected by the Doge of Venice and the Pope to Byzantium; - which then destabilized the only thing holding Islam out of Europe. Islam then took advantage of the weakened and destroyed Byzantine empire and took it over. Hence, Istanbul and not Constantinople. The Haga Sofia was initially built as an orthodox church, it sure as hell was never a mosque. But it also shows what they would do to the lands they conquer; - they destroyed the Orthodox Christians and put those who didn't convert to the sword, and destroyed all of the remaining culture and treasures. They then surged northward on a sworn mission to subjugate Europe, and almost succeeded in the 17th century.

Now they're doing it because in our stupidity and generosity we let them in, they don't have to fight, they just walk in and we out of some perverted form of guilt just give them stuff in hopes they will become as enlightened and thankful as we are. But they won't; - they see it as a weakness and they will exploit it, and they will multiply us out of existence and then destroy the remains, much like what they've done everywhere they go. This is an evil, self serving culture that adds nothing to the human diaspora, only subjugates, destroys and impoverishes. To use a bad example, they are the "Dark side", and they will treat their empire much the same way. They need to be destroyed, before they destroy everything we've created and hold dear in the western world.

 

To add; - I spent a number of years working within the Arab culture here in Canada back in my late teens and early 20s. I got to understand how they think, and what they think. I needed a job, so I found one and went to work for a number of Arabs who unfortunately for them only had daughters. They "let me in" in hopes to convert me, and they assumed that just because I was German that I hated Jews. These are people who came here ostensibly to get away from the constant civil wars, but were saving their pennies and sending money back, and became citizens of convenience, and cashing in on the stupidity of the system whenever they could. They saw westerners as deluded, weak fools who have no convictions and are more prone to addle themselves with drugs (which they provided cheap) than run a business and do something for their family. They saw western women only as sexual conquests, because here again, they're too stupid to know better and besides, the way they look they "want it anyway". They figure that the west will cave in to them like a mewling kitten; - we're too wrapped up in our flabby consumer society, worrying more about Kim Kardasian's latest near nude dress than what's really important. And they take advantage of our largess, knowing full well that if someone has the audacity to say something all they have to do is scream racism and they get it anyway. These people are trash, very dangerous trash, because they will resist any attempt at integrating them in our liberal society with violence. Look at Europe now; there are areas in Paris and Vienna where "christian" people don't dare go anymore for fear of getting killed. They've turned these areas into microcosms of the very thing they're supposed to be running away from, - does that look like a group of people who want to change their lot? No, they want to destroy ours.

 

Walls of text to imply all Muslims are Arab? If trying to sound like you guys have it all figured out, at least take the time to be specific.

 

No, of course they aren't all Arabs. In fact, the Arabs tend to think of all the other Muslims as second class Muslims and that they alone are the "pure Muslims". And yes, I'll clarify; - I've been and lived in lots of countries where Muslims are the majority, mostly in South East Asia, and have never had any problems. It's the Arabs that I personally have problems with based on my experiences. That's my problem and my prejudice; they are the only group of people or culture that I can honestly say I do not like, and like the other cultures that I know, it is through experience and not books. (the reading followed later) I have a lot of friends who also worked in the oil industry in Saudi Arabia, - now there's a place you don't want to be as a Westerner, and the stories they tell all agree with the observations I had made years ago. Each culture does have its benefits and disadvantages, and I suppose to them we are the Great Satan because we come at things from a totally different perspective than they do. Is it right? Is it wrong? That depends where you are and who's side you were raised on. I'm sure they are totally convinced that we are all fodder for the devil and that we are condemned to hell because we don't see things the way they do. As I explained to my young fundamentalist Christian nephew years ago during the Gulf Wars when he asked, "but they're wrong, right?" I told him that for every 10 year-old of him that is convinced that Christianity is the true religion there are ten other 10 year-olds over there who are dead set against your beliefs and will fight you to the death, they believe that Allah is the only way.

How can our system of love, tolerance, free speech, the pursuit of happiness win against that?

 

A little heated up, this discussion, isn`t it.
Not to take anybodies side, especially not the ones of crazy fanatics, but to stay with some facts, not personal opinions. When I take a look a wikipedias map of world religion, I see that not we are surrounded by muslim people, but they are by christians. Taking a look at the numbers, we have approx. 1.6 bill. muslims and 2.3 bill. christians…that`s a 600 million difference.
Looking at the timetable, France started air strikes at the end of september already as you can plainly google, so are we talking about attack or counter-attack, who claimes which right?
And I can`t remember the last time a muslim tank was parked in front of my house, not in the last 50-60 years at least….I`m pretty sure, normal people down there see „christian“ tanks everyday and have been for decades. Not to mention drones, planes, choppers, you name it.
I get the feeling we`re paranoidly slipping into some cultural clash where we tend to see us as victims, but I suggest to try to switch the view for a few instances and try to see it through somebody elses eye. We, as the people of these free countries, should be highly alert that we get as much non-biased information as possible and should be careful who tells us who the enemy is and what we should to do with him. Propaganda is a dangerous thing, and it makes people do dangerous things that they will have to live with long after time has marched on.

Jens

 

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ends-efforts-settle-syrian-refugees/75825736/

Snyder's office released a statement Sunday saying the state would not be accepting any Syrian refugees until the U.S. Department of Homeland Security fully reviewed its procedures.

My stance on immigration (or refugee relocation) is as follows:

 

"We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people."
/\/\/\/\ Exactly! AND, we shouldn't be pressing "1" for English as well. But that's another topic altogether.

 

An interesting 7 minutes

[video=youtube;6-3X5hIFXYU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU[/video]

 

Who is responsible for such a statistic? Who made this documentry you mentioned in the thread? What are the sources ?
Here are some others.one is about ghosts, the next about aliens and the third about the Loch Ness monster (tri-fitty, you know)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLxetSd9aPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6SCQnKdXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fur3ngAZCVA


I think it`s so important to check who`s telling what..

 

Throw a rock on the internet and you will find a hate group.

We need to not get too wrapped up in this, so let's return to our regularly scheduled Buick talk.

JW