**Overdrive auto info for those looking to do a trans swap**

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by sean Buick 76, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Your options:

    1. electronic 4 speed version of the Turbo 400, the 4L80E overdrive (chevy bolt pattern needs adapter to bop)

    2. 200-R4 (overdrive) I believe they are all dual pattern, Used in GM rear wheel drive cars with the 3.8 V6, 305 & 350 Olds and 301 pontiac from 1981 to 1989. Try and find a carbed donor car if your scared of electronics.

    3. 700-R4 (overdrive) with adapter (slightly stronger than 200 R4)

    If you use a maunal valve body on the electric trans then you can make the swap much easier because you won't need all the electronic conections. Not for everyone but there is nothing like a shift kit and a rachet shifter controlling when your Buick changes gears!

    Another plus with the modern trans is that you can lock up the converter in several ways using a toggle switch simple timer or many other neet ways. This makes it possible to run a high stall converter like a 3000 rpm lets say and then lock it up on the highway so you can gain get rid of the slippage!

    Gear ratios:
    Model 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

    GM
    TH350 2.52 1.52 1.00
    TH400 2.48 1.48 1.00
    200r4 2.74 1.57 1.00 0.67
    700r4 3.06 1.62 1.00 0.70
    4L60E 3.06 1.62 1.00 0.70
    4L80E 2.48 1.48 1.00 0.75


    http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/AutomaticOverdriveTransmissionSwap.htm

    BOP PIC
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 11, 2006
  2. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Chevy Pic
     

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  3. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Dual Pic
     

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  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    If your not familiar with the trans ID then this pic will help in your search!
     

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  5. SweBuick

    SweBuick Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the info :TU: . This will be useful since I will change trans in my 61 Apache from powerglide to probably a 700R4.
     
  6. gstewart

    gstewart Well-Known Member

    great information..
    by the way, i owned a new 1981 cutlass supreme brougham 2dr. fortunately, my car had a th350 tranny, not one of the 200r4 that seemed fail regularly.
     
  7. online170

    online170 Well-Known Member

    Another bit of useful information. Although not evident at first, but the 4l80E needs a few extra parts to make it work. If installed on an older car, you will need to purchase a TPS (throttle position sensor), as the transmission is completely electronically controlled. And in most cases, driveshafts and possible crossmembers need to be modified or swapped out as well. The rest is pretty simple.
     
  8. Sportwagon400

    Sportwagon400 Well-Known Member


    the 81 Cutlass had the th200 trans non overdrive the 200R4 is actually a very good trans and my choice over the 700R4 anyday for the following reasons

    #1 - same length as TH350, powerglide, ST300 no change to drive shaft
    #2 - dual bolt pattern
    #3 - same yoke as TH350, powerglide, ST300
    #4 - uses crossmember frame holes same as TH400 6" back from th350
    #5 - better gear ratios than 700R4
    #6 - found in carberated cars for easy swaping 307 olds in full size cars
    #7 - over looked by the chevy guys so easier to find
    #8 - I have them installed in 2 of my cars already and plan to do 5 more
    #9 - over 20,000 combined miles trouble free driving
    #10 - easy lock up convertor set up for carb ( no hassle or add ons )
    #11 - throttle/TV bracket easy and cheap to find and use
    #12 - speedo output on tail shaft to use factory speedo ( non electric )

    This is the BEST swap I have ever done and I will do it at least 5 more times in the next 2 years to more of my fleet

    Ken
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2006
  9. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Good input guys!
     
  10. chryco63

    chryco63 14's or bust!

    Ken,

    I'm curious... are you exclusively using the BR code 200-4R's (TR/GN), or just any code transmission? Do you have any rebuild specs for your trans? Thanks! :TU:

    I've also read (I forget where) that some Cadillac 200-4R's have a higher stall converter, similar to the ones found in 442s/GN's and such. Can anyone verify?
     
  11. Sportwagon400

    Sportwagon400 Well-Known Member

    Right now I do NOT use the GN 2004R trans :eek2: ... the reason is simple ... that trans is computer controled as it is hooked to the injected V6. The ones I use have a single green wire ( not 3 or 4 ) to the lock up and are generally found on 307 Olds engine with carbs. Every trans I have put iin is not behind a high power motor and all have seemed to work just fine. I also use the TV cable and Bracket, as well as the vacume Lock up switch ( on the intake ) from the olds motor as it works with every carb you can think of ( TV cable is the life blood of this trans ) When I do decide to rebuild one for my BIG blocks I will use the Raptor set up or some one who has experience with them

    I know it may not be fashionable to use stock stuff but with only moderate out put like a stock 350 why throw good money after bad unless you need to

    PS also never interchange internal trans parts on a 2004R they are precsion machined for each trans... If any one wants to be a hero and try and out think the GM engineers be my guest but in all my swap work ( 30+ years and over 60 swaps ) simple is usually the best.

    Besides i am very frugal ( cheap ) :TU:


    Ken
     
  12. 3lark

    3lark Well-Known Member

    Swap questions

    Just a few questions because I am doing this swap in my 70 Skylark. The car was originally a 350 cid / TH 350 combo. I am changing it to a 455 with a 200R4. First will the driveshaft (trans yoke) from my th350 work on the 200R4 (I think this was mentioned, but just to be sure)? Second, will the th350 trans mount work, or do I absoulutley need to get the th400 trans mount?
     
  13. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Ken
    I will have to disagree about a BFR (GN) trans not being a good choice because it is computer controlled. It is really simple to wire up the lockup on a BFR trans, no different than any other 200r4. You can get a kit and wiring diagram from www.bowtieoverdrives.com and wire up lockup for 2nd 3rd and 4th or just 4th. I use a lock/lockup switch on mine for 4th only. When I get a Vigilante 5 disc lockup converter will try running lockup on 2 and 3 and see how that works. The GN guys claim .3 drop in ET's if you can lock them up.

    You are right on the money about these transmissions. Let the chevy folks have the 700's because the 200r4 is a much better trans.
     
  14. Sportwagon400

    Sportwagon400 Well-Known Member


    I don't belive i siad it was not a good choice :Do No: I said I did not use it ... mainly because anyone who has one wants BIG coin for them ( even for a core $300.00 +) and for my needs the other one is just fine.( pick and pull specials for $49.99 with all the brackets and cables :eek2: ) When I rebuild mine it will be to GN specs or better. The lock up on mine works in 3 and 4 now and I have it on a brake switch, as well as the vacum switch I can also shut it off manually. The trans with the single green wire is already set up for lock up in 3&4 with just 12 volts to it. and for a cheap old fart like me thats just fine as well
    I have read a lot on bowtie over drive site as well as a few others http://www.redrider.us/2004r_performance_transmissions.htm very good information and when i decide to put one behind one of my stage 1 motors I will definatly be using all the good stuff. The bad part is in Canada where i live no one seems to know a damn thing about these great transmissions. So I will continue to use what I know works and :grin: .... hell any input from any one is always welcome :TU:

    For the yoke I used my TH350 yoke and you can use the trans mount from your 350 if the bolt holes line up. What i ment to say in my comments on the 200R4 was that the mounting on the frame is the same as the TH400 aprox 6" back from where the TH350 is located on the frame. If you have a 68 or newer car the holes should already be there. I rebent the park brake cable stay ( u shaped on both ends ) in order to keep my park brake, you could also relocate the hole as well.


    Ken
     
  15. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    No kidding on the price! A good core BFR is $250 and a working stocker is $500. Sounds like we are in total agreement about what a great tranny these are.

    How are you setting up the vacuumn switch? I have the brake disingage for the lockup and a manual switch. Not sure how good a vacuumn switch would work with a motor that only pulls 12" at idle.
     
  16. chryco63

    chryco63 14's or bust!

    Re: BFR code 200-4R

    The reason I ask is I have just recently come across both a BFR code tranny, and a 10.25:1 '69 350. However, I don't think the tranny will go for cheap (i.e. I can't afford it), yet I do like the idea of the 200-4R. Ken, what year and HP 350 do you have ahead of your 200-4R, and how long have you had it in there? Can you beat on the tranny pretty hard with a stock 350?
     
  17. Sportwagon400

    Sportwagon400 Well-Known Member

    YUP thats the price :shock: and if you are careful i even use them untouched hahaha just change the oil hehehehe :TU: :TU: :TU:

    I agree that anyone should use what they feel is best in there car.. as for the 350 in my 64 it is a 72 with a com cam and aluminum intake HP??? I don't know but scoots along just great :TU: In my 81 RX7 with a 350 chev and 2004R I beat the crap out of it and it has worked great so far about 10,000 miles and about 50 trips down the 1/4.. Although use a BIG stand alone trans cooler and do not run it through the rad ( my opnion unless you drive it in the winter time )

    As for the vacume switch the ones I use come from full size oldsmobiles as well as some chev's ( with 7004R's ) all it does is if there is a loss in vacume it unlocks the convertor by cutting the 12 volt power to it :shock: so I think 12" should be enough to make it work lock up is just for crusing anyway. I uses a lighted switch on my dash so when power is on it lights up my brake light switch works the same as the vacume switch when i hit the brakes the power is cut to the lock up... works great as well. It operates exactly opposite as the cruse switch, in fact i have the cruse switch form a car with over drive it has both connecions on it ( i have cruse in my 64 ). I will post a picture of my set up this weekend or any one can e mail me if they want

    kkklassen@shaw.ca


    Ken
     
  18. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    I'm glad this thread has became so informative!!

    Keep it up guys....
     
  19. GS Jim

    GS Jim Platinum Level Contributor

    200-4r

    Hi Ken; I have a stand alone cooler myself. I also have a Trans Temp gauge hooked up to the outlet side of the coolant to keep an eye on the Temp. I also have a couple of fans in back of it, but it never goes above 125*. That's a good idea to hook up a light to the OD. I have a Fan on my Rad. that I forget to turn off every so often. A light would help. I have a switch for my lock up, but it un-locks by itself when I come to a stop. If I leave the switch on, it goes in to Lock up when it hits OD on it's own. I don't really need the switch, but I dont really need the Lock-up all the time either. :TU:
    PONCH
     
  20. Sportwagon400

    Sportwagon400 Well-Known Member


    On my 64 that i built for long drives i never touch the lock up switch except when i am climbing a long grade ( i live near the Rocky mountians up to 10% grades :bglasses: ) when the cruise is on :TU: then i just shut off the lock up ... is easier on the engine :) The lockup is great to hold the car coming down some of the long steep ( 8 - 10 % ) grades :Dou: that can be 20 miles in length. :eek2: If you are on flat land it would never be an issue but where i am ... it gives me an option is all :TU:


    Ken
     

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