Our President and His Faith

Discussion in 'Help From Above' started by GSXMEN, Mar 4, 2003.

  1. GSXMEN

    GSXMEN Got Jesus?

    Looks like President Bush is on the cover of Newsweek. Here is a small part of the story with a link to the full story (rather lengthy). Very nice insight into what really motivates him!

    March 10 issue George W. Bush rises ahead of the dawn most days, when the loudest sound outside the White House is the dull, distant roar of F-16s patrolling the skies. Even before he brings his wife, Laura, a morning cup of coffee, he goes off to a quiet place to read alone.

    HIS TEXT ISNT news summaries or the overnight intelligence dispatches. Those are for later, downstairs, in the Oval Office. Its not recreational reading (recently, a biography of Sandy Koufax). Instead, hes told friends, its a book of evangelical mini-sermons, My Utmost for His Highest. The author is Oswald Chambers, and, under the circumstances, the historical echoes are loud. A Scotsman and itinerant Baptist preacher, Chambers died in November 1917 as he was bringing the Gospel to Australian and New Zealand soldiers massed in Egypt. By Christmas they had helped to wrest Palestine from the Turks, and captured Jerusalem for the British Empire at the end of World War I.
    Now there is talk of a new war in the Near East, this time in a land once called Babylon. One morning last month, as the United Nations argued and Washingtonians raced to hardware stores for duct tape amid a new Orange alert, the daily homily in My Utmost was about Isaiahs reminder that God is the author of all life and history. Lift up your eyes on high, the prophet of the Old Testament said, and behold who hath created these things. Chamberss explication: When you are up against difficulties, you have no power, you can only endure in darkness unless you go right out of yourself, and deliberately turn your imagination to God.
    Later that day, the president did so. At Opryland in Nashvillethe old Buckle of the Bible BeltBush told religious broadcasters that the terrorists hate the fact that ... we can worship Almighty God the way we see fit, and that the United States was called to bring Gods gift of liberty to every human being in the world. In his view, the chances of success were better than good. (After all, at the National Prayer Breakfast a few days before, hed declared that behind all of life and all history there is a dedication and purpose, set by the hand of a just and faithful God. If thats so, America couldnt fail.)
    After his speech in Nashville, Bush met privately with pastoral social workers and bore witness to his own faith in Jesus Christ. I would not be president today, he said, if I hadnt stopped drinking 17 years ago. And I could only do that with the grace of God. The prospect of war with Iraq was weighing heavy on him, he admitted. He knew that many peopleincluding some at the tablesaw the conflict as pre-emptive and unjust. (I couldnt imagine Jesus delivering a message of war to a cheering crowd, as I just heard the president do, one participant, Charles Strobel, said later.) But, the president said, America had to see that it is encountering evil in the form of Saddam Hussein. The country had no choice but to confront it, by war if necessary. If anyone can be at peace, Bush said, I am at peace about this.
    Every president invokes God and asks his blessing. Every president promises, though not always in so many words, to lead according to moral principles rooted in Biblical tradition. The English writer G. K. Chesterton called America a nation with the soul of a church, and every president, at times, is the pastor in the bully pulpit. But it has taken a war, and the prospect of more, to highlight a central fact: this presidentthis presidencyis the most resolutely faith-based in modern times, an enterprise founded, supported and guided by trust in the temporal and spiritual power of God. Money matters, as does military might. But the Bush administration is dedicated to the idea that there is an answer to societal problems here and to terrorism abroad: give everyone, everywhere, the freedom to find God, too.


    *Click here for the whole story.
     
  2. JAKE

    JAKE Well-Known Member

    President Bush's Faith

    Scott: Good on you mate! I for one am happy to have a president who I believe lives his faith rather than using faith for a cover when needed. After 9/11 many people sought the Hand of God for help but with hindsight it doesn't look like many sought the Face of God to find His will for our lifes and for our country. I find it nice for a change to see a few small victories in our government and courts to turn back the darkness that is enveloping this country. I realize that president Bush is not perfect but I have not heard anything immoral about him and if it's there you know we would hear it!

    Keep The Faith!! Jake
    1972 455 Stage 1 Skylark Ready For Liftoff!
     
  3. KEN COTRONA

    KEN COTRONA Well-Known Member

    "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these men or what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

    "Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth... Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea"

    A Past world leader who also lived his faith, any guesses????
    anyone?.... anyone?........ bueller?
    (no it wasn't George senior, that would be too easy, and it sure wasn't Billy C .)
    hint, he wrote a famous book.
     
  4. JAKE

    JAKE Well-Known Member

    World Leaders Faith

    :grin: Ken: YOU HAVE BEEN JERKING MY CHAIN!! But it has been fun and very interesting, I guess we need someone to pull us up short sometimes and make us think. I agree with you that the morals in this country are falling due to the things in our society that are considered "acceptable" and "normal" and the fact that many of our schools teach "situational ethics" instead of "right" or "wrong". As for your question I'm going to say Bill Clinton, He had faith in the American people to forgive anything as long as their pocketbooks were full and I saw on tv the other day He is the most admired president out o the last half dozen we had so I guess his faith was well placed and I think he wrote How to make money in a Bed and Breakfast Business in downtown DC. just kidding, I know you said not Bill C., I don't have a clue! Maybe Mohammed, He lived the faith and was credited with the Koran, how about Adolph and Mein Kampf? David and Psalms? PLEEEASE tell me!
    GOD BLESS JAKE
     
  5. chryco63

    chryco63 14's or bust!

    Ken,

    My answer is Hitler and Mein Kampf. It seems to be the answer you're looking for...
     
  6. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    Now the pope has come out against the war. And apparently therefore all Catholics must take a stand against the President of the U.S.

    You can either support the President or the pope (or neither). But not both.

    I wonder what he'd be saying if Saddam had promised to attack the Vatican instead of attacking the U.S.

    Come to think of it, I wonder why Al Queda hasn't tried to attack the Vatican? It seems like they are the pinnacle of Catholicism (and therefore the Infidels).

    Oh wait, I know, it's because of the pornography and morals that come out of Hollywood in the US. The morals are still in okay shape at the Vatican I guess.

    -"Babbleing" Bob Cunningham
    bobc@gnttype.org
     
  7. chryco63

    chryco63 14's or bust!

    Bob,

    I find it "amusing," and sometimes frustrating, about how Catholics call themselves Christians, and yet stray sooo far from the word of God and the example of Christ. Catholosism has to be the most laid back, yet one of the most "devoted" of all religions.

    As a Canadian, and a born again Christian, I stand behind Bush in going to war. Jesus said wars and rumours of wars were to come, and that they must happen. That's why I don't stand behind all these protests for peace... people are causing a ruckus. If war is going to happen, it will happen. It is so unfortunate that innocent people *could* die, people who don't know Christ. But that's a staple of war: people die!

    What else can I say? Pray for peace, but pray that God's will be done first! Pray that Bush seeks God's guidance and strength, too. Let's not stand in the way!
     
  8. GSXMEN

    GSXMEN Got Jesus?

    In the President's speach today...he said that's the very thing he does!! Sure is a more than pleasant change to have someone with morals in charge!! Even more so, to have a Leader that genuinely looks to the Lord for guidence, wisdom, and strength!!:TU:

    Sure beats checking the poles in the morning to see which way the wind is blowing.:rolleyes:

    BTW, to those who think morals make no difference...tell that to the thousands of people affected in such a negative way by the likes of Enron, Arther Anderson, etc. If a country or a company has no 'moral compass' - they're just plain LOST!!
     
  9. KEN COTRONA

    KEN COTRONA Well-Known Member

    THE ANSWER TO MY ABOVE POST WAS:
    HITLER

    Just because a leader is a christian and thinks they ae following the word of god does not make him or her a good leader.
     
  10. Rusty Davenport

    Rusty Davenport Silver Level contributor

    HITLER IS IN HELL

    Ken,If you think Hitler is a Christian you would be wrong.We can not judge a man's heart or motives but we can judge his actions;by Hilters actions and looking at his fruit I would say Hilter is in hell right now.
     
  11. KEN COTRONA

    KEN COTRONA Well-Known Member

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm
    Evidence that Hitler in thought and action was following gods word. Hitler belived he was right, why would he be in hell? The 9/11 highjackers also belived they were doing thier gods will. maybe they are in YOUR VERSION of hell, but to them, they are in heaven. that is what makes religion so dangerous, the promise of ultimate everlasting reward for being one of gods soldiers.
    It comes down to my god can beat up your god.
    the pope is against the "war on iraq" catholics acording to thier beliefs) must support the pope and also be against the war.
    JFK had a good response to the religion/ government thing. as president he would act in the best interest of the country, in his OWN HOME he would follow his religion.
    Bill Clinton was a baptist (with bad taste in women) crappy president or not he seemed to keep his religion seperate from his presidency.
    I don't thing GW is, and its gonna cause problems .
    (personally i would have wacked the fool saddam during desert storm, hitler was deserving of a bullet too)
     
  12. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    Hmm. Different Heavens depending on in which god you believe. I'm also intrigued that Hitler could be confused that he is in hell, but actually in Heaven- they are two very different places...

    Too bad that's a farce. Each person can't have their own different God- there is only one God for all Mankind. And one Heaven and one Hell.

    No question that many people througout history have thought they were doing God's work, when they were doing quite the opposite. And no question that some people act religious just for show, when they have no intention of doing what is God's will.

    -Bob Cunningham
    bobc@gnttype.org
     
  13. Rusty Davenport

    Rusty Davenport Silver Level contributor

    Ken,The truth of the matter is all mankind is headed to to hell for all are sinners and come short of being perfect.God demands that we be perfect as he is,and the price for sin is death[eturnal death in hell] No one is able to justify themself for even if we never sinned after we turn from sins God's justice requires payment for the past sin [ and even after we are saved we still sin every day either sins of commission or we sin by not doing some of the things we should do for God] Man cannot please God with our works or our own self righteous.Anyone who thinks that they will earn the right to go to heaven for something that they do will spilt hell wide open when they die.The only way to be pleasing in the sight of God is perfection and God provided a saviour in Jesus Christ who took on human flesh lived a sinless life and bleed and died upon a cross for his people that he determined to save before the foundation of the world.Salvation is a supernatural work of God ;a work of grace that He gives to his people.Man cannot attain it on his own.When God saves a lost sinner by grace he quickens the spirt and cause man to relize that they are a sinner and gives them the desire to repent and turn from sin and accept Jesus Christ by faith.Man can think up a lot of different ways to justify thier actions or ways to be saved but God declares only one way and that way is to repent and trust Jesus Christ by faith.Ken from all your posts it seems like you've looked at a lot of ways but you have not accepted the true way,Jesus Christ.Quit looking to man but look to God for salvation.I pray that he might preform a work of grace upon you because if not you are in a most dangerous situation because you are mocking and denying the most high God.A God who requires payment for every sin.I am most thankful that He paid the price for my sin and I know the price that he paid and that price helps me to try a little harder to walk like my saviour,and i still realize what a failure I am at keeping his law perfectly but he forgives us and gives us grace to continue on.
     
  14. GKMoz

    GKMoz Gary / Moz

    Amen

    Rusty!! couldn't have said it better!! i've been reading Kens posts and i see the same thing you see,Ken has knowledge,but its head knowledge,like you said a Man needs Heart knowledge(personal commitment w/Jesus) revelation 3:20"behold i stand at the door of your heart and knock,if you will open the door ,i will come and live with you,and you with me" to understand these words is the beginning of wisdom.not mans wisdom,but Gods wisdom.Jesus told Nicodemus(John 3)" the natural man cannot see the kingdom of God"man confuses religions with christianity!!
    religions says to God"look how good i am" christianity says i am lost and i know that i cannot earn my way into your favor.i have used this example before, the story of Cain and Able, Cain tried to earn Gods acceptance(with works of his hands)Able knew in his heart(all men do)that he could NOT earn gods favor(his own works)he knew in his heart what God required(blood atonement)
    A.K.A. Jesus.2000 years ago 3 wisemen saught him out and millions of men since have found him. well this has gotten a little long,but to say all that in short is Amen:grin: :grin:
     
  15. GSXMEN

    GSXMEN Got Jesus?

    The distance between a man's heart and his brain are only about 12" to 18" (depending on how tall you are).

    It would be a tragedy to get so close to Heaven, but miss out!!:eek2:

    Ken - You need to take this seriously. Everyone will admit at one time or another that Jesus Christ is Lord. As you've probably heard "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord". The only question remains: will you do it now - when it will mean your name is in the Book of Life. Or will you do it when it's too late - kneeling before the Lord on the Day of Judgement...moments before He says "Depart from Me, I never knew you", and casts you into Hell.

    That's a very sobering thought...I can't even imagine joking about it. Not one of us can guarantee that we'll even see tomorrow!

    Heaven and Hell are forever...it's up to you where you will spend Eternity.
     
  16. Floydsbuick

    Floydsbuick Well-Known Member

    Glen Robbin's post hit's the nail on the head. Couldn't of said it any better. :grin:



    Dan
     
  17. KEN COTRONA

    KEN COTRONA Well-Known Member

    Or will you do it when it's too late - kneeling before the Lord on the Day of Judgement...moments before He says "Depart from Me, I never knew you", and casts you into Hell.

    I pray that he might preform a work of grace upon you because if not you are in a most dangerous situation because you are mocking and denying the most high God.A God who requires payment for every sin.
    the story of Cain and Able, Cain tried to earn Gods acceptance(with works of his hands)Able knew in his heart(all men do)that he could NOT earn gods favor(his own works)he knew in his heart what God required(blood atonement)).


    WHOA NOW eternal damnation!!blood atonment!! from a god who loves us.
    who in your life do you love?, now imagine torturing that person for eternity constantly inflicting pain upon pain. that is what god has in store for those who do not follow his will. does that sound like love.
    your dog knows that your will is for him to poo outside, when he has an accident, do you beat and burn him forever.
    do you destroy your car because you wired it poorly and it doesn't run, god supposedly wired us, why would he destroy his creation rather than fix it.

    oh he gave us free will....... that argument again.....
    god doesn't want robots he gave us a choice.......
    actually, according to the bible, god wanted robots.
    from the account of creation in the book of genesis. God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Then it stands to
    reason that He did not want us to freely choose but
    remain happy robots.
    Why can't an omnipotent God allow free will and simultaneously disallow evil? Isn't that how things are supposed to be in Heaven? Our "bad" choices would be met with a big voice saying "hey what are you doing?" cut it out."
    natural evils like earthquakes, plauges, cancer and such would not exist, we would have a safe planet , falling from a great hight, we would float down to earth, we could live underwater, or not be burned in a fire, murder would not exist ect........ is this not the "safe" environment parents try to raise thier children in?
    God can do anything, why not this ?
    The problems and inconsistancy with christianity are to much to be believed. Also, the billions of people whom god created that lived and died but were buddist, hindu, jewish, muslum ect... are all in hell? Some, had no exposure to christianity, is that thier fault? Thats silly.

    The distance between a man's heart and his brain are only about 12" to 18" (depending on how tall you are ). how does being tall affect that? is there any evidence? did someone take a sampling of measurments and look at the data collected? is it different by race or location?
    just kidding
    Do you all believe out of fear of hell? "i don't want to go to hell, so i must believe ?"
    well its a nice day out, the rivvy is a callin'
     
  18. sbbuick

    sbbuick My driving scares people!

    I think that Bush is misleading us.

    He says that he is religious, but his actions say otherwise. Every week we hear about him relaxing environmental laws, the clean water act, opening new protected areas to logging.. the list goes on.

    Why? If a person was truly spiritual wouldn't they care about God's greatest worldly gift to us humans - the planet Earth?? Nearly EVERY other modernized country on the planet is VERY concerned about global warming. Bush doesn't seem to care at all - even Before 9-11.

    I can't believe I voted for him :(
     
  19. Floydsbuick

    Floydsbuick Well-Known Member

    sbbuick,

    If you are so concerned with global warming, what are you doing driving that polluting vintage automobile? Crush it at once!

    Dan
     
  20. chryco63

    chryco63 14's or bust!

    Ken,

    Your replies and posts are very challenging. They help me to search the Scriptures more, dig deeper and question why I believe. I enjoy taking the time to study the Word, pray and reply.

    First, let me say... God will not torture us in Hell. God's home for eternity is in Heaven, where there is no pain. Eternal damnation sure doesn't sound like love. But when we read and hear God's will (whose basis is love for all mankind) and choose not to follow it, we conform to the will of the world, which is selfish and breeds rage, anger, malice, envy, jealousy, drunkenness and adultery. We can't expect to gain entrance into Heaven, to praise God eternally with those who love God, if we have shown such things (as above) to man on Earth. What we can expect is to be condemned. God loves us, and He wants us to love everyone and show them His love as well.

    About "happy robots"....Let me relate this to parenting and children. Ken, there's a reason we call God our Father in Heaven. He is our Heavenly Parent. Like God, parents know what is good (beneficial or permissable), and bad (harmful) for their children. Parents can allow their children to freely choose and run amock, but who knows what harm might come their way... they might even get killed. Children don't know that there is harm in somethings. That's why parents should instruct their children, instill them with proper morals and not let them run loose and let them be.

    That's the way it is with God. Only God knew why Adam and Eve shouldn't have touched or eaten from the tree of knowledge. Obviously, Adam and Eve didn't see any harm with the fruit. Only parents can see why kids shouldn't run around the house with pointy scissors. Most kids don't see why... they're just having fun.

    Next point: God can do anything! God can make it so you don't burn when you catch fire, or float when you fall... but that's not the way God chose to make it, is it? Why is it this way? I don't know. All I can say is that when God calls you, he's going to take you. Earthquake, murder, car crash... either way, you're going. Which brings me to the next point....

    What happens if you aren't a Christian when you die, or if you didn't even hear the Good News? This is where God's Grace and Mercy come into play. I can't say what will happen to them, except that God will decide when it's time. As for their time on Earth, there is no excuse for us to devote all of our lives to finding those people who have never heard. If we just sit back and relax and let someone else take the duty of The Great Commission (Matt. 28:16-end of chapter), then we can only expect condemnation when our time comes.

    Ken, I don't believe in God out of fear of Hell. But one of the reasons I believe in God is out of fear of God. Hell is scary, but God is the only one who can send me there. Also, let me be the first to say that Christianity isn't a walk in the park. But it gets easier when I consider verses like James 4:7-10.

    Hope this helps, Ken.
     

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