Old 1950ies or 60ies Rottler engine boring machine

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by HotRodRivi, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    Has anyone used these? I seen one that the crank centering bar was flat like a straight edge, not round. I know it was not the early Mobil boring unit. That one rests on top of your block . The guy also had an old line hone that just used V blocks on the deck to center block. I know the most important thing is the guy using the equipment.
     
  2. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Got pics?
     
  3. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Is there a specific question?
    Are you considering the purchase of these machines and looking for advice?
     
  4. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    I was wondering if machines that old could still do a reasonable job. Was considering bringing a block to a guy to bore. The machinest owner gave me a walk through of his shop, his dad started the shop in 1942, and it almost still looks like it's 1942 in there.
     
  5. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You wouldn't be able to visually tell (or with indicators if the owner would even let you!) if the machines are capable of good work whether old or new.
    There are plenty of old machines that still do a 'better' job than newer ones.
    Many of the improvements to machinery hasn't been to cut a better hole, it's to speed up the process for profit or simplify things for a lesser skilled and trained work pool.
    If the old guy is still in business and screens his clients carefully, chances are he's also the guy that fixes everyone else's mess-ups.
    If he is interested in sharing info or talking about it, maybe ask him why he stuck with the machines he has.
    There are many machine designs that have not been improved on...but are really slow to either set up or cut.
    There are many CNC's that are horrible to either work with or have very specific limitations as to what they do, new or old.
    The best machinery can be overcome with sloppy set-up, poor practices, apathy, ignorance and haste.

    I would have a strong preference to automatically trust a confident old feller in a small shop than the other options out there, even if the shop looked horrible.
    Two local shops with great equipment and well trained work pool having new owner, so even though capable of the best...what's coming out is a horrible disservice to the machining communities.

    Other's I've noticed stay in business due to franchise name and the fact that the customer is almost never in a position to verify things with any accuracy or with respect to other aspects of the build. Blame can always be deferred elsewhere.

    You probably can't bore enough blocks in a small shop to wear out a machine unless you don't maintain it (clean and lube).
    This is more of a concern in a production environment cutting thousands of holes per week with the occasional crash.
    The old stuff can be overbuilt at times.

    I think even if you did a specific search on each piece of equipment he has, you would never find an answer as to the capability of the machinery.
     
  6. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    I m leaning on trusting the guy, he is the one doing the machining. I'm hoping this is one of those oldie but goodies . Thanks for the input
     
  7. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Maybe find others that have used his shop?
    I know it's still up to the perception of the consumer, and I see plenty that openly say, "they are great, have had no problems..." when referring to places that commonly have serious problems.
    What are his thoughts on what you are trying to accomplish with your build?
     
  8. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    I asked if he had a torque plate , which he didn't , he was impressed that I had one , said he knows I'm serious about my motor. I asked him why no newer machines he said it's more the one using it.
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  9. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    It's a ware house of a shop , said he ounce had 40 workers in its heyday, it looks like it's fading away, not an advertised high performance shop, he is definitely the one doing most of the flat head and older stuff . If you need something early he has it, gladly showed me around. He said if I needed .10 over he would just hone that.
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  10. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Unless a shop is busy enough to depreciate new machines on a reasonable amortization schedule, it makes little sense for an older fellow to keep buying new.
    It's tough to sell a business like this with the price based on a few years projected sales.
    You have a hard time getting much more than scrap price from your machines in a dying trade (in some areas).
    New machines are not always better.
    They have also been outsourced and might have questionable support these days.
    He's probably been able to retire for a while and it would tie him down some to have to take on X amount of work to pay down new equipment.
    Even in the CNC shops, we would put work where certain machines are more capable than others, even if they are the same machines.
     
  11. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    My comment was hanging before I saw your last...
     
  12. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    I think I'm gonna give it a go . It's been 3 yrs too long . Thanks for the insight into machining .
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  13. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You are welcome.
    It's incredibly tough to judge anything based on impressions at this point.
    The main thing is the willingness to work towards the same goal and communicate effectively.
    I find this aspect way more important than the first impression.
    I have way more trust in someone having to make decisions on ring finish procedures and dealing with 40 employees than a younger person trying to sell me on their fancy new diamond hone that I know darn well is almost solely intended to help the shops bottom line with tool life costs...and NOT solely to help YOUR engine.
    He has has decades experience fighting off pesky tool reps pushing the latest and greatest but unproveable compared to his methods and machines, which he knows better than anyone.
    You know a machine much better after cutting thousands of things with it.
     
    Mart likes this.

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