So, my 66 RiviGS had been handling ok, and I had the front shocks and the lower ball joints replaced (in front). I was told by three different shops the front suspension was "fine", or "OK". One was a Midas, they're OK, not great for an old car though. The other places had a few guys who should know older cars at least a bit. No one ever suggested that I may want to replace the springs, (I understand this may help a great deal), the shocks up front may not have been "heavy duty", haven't really liked them, I didn't notice much difference from the original shocks, which were definitely "busted". We never really addressed any of the suspension in back. The issues: I didn't like the ride of the car because it seemed like you could feel every bump and crack in the pavement-like when I drive my much smaller Toyota Celica. I understand it's a heavy-4400 pounds?-but I recently went with my buddy to test drive a 68 Electra, and that car floated-like I would expect these "luxury" cars to ride. Nice, comfotatble and didn't notice every freakin bump. After I had the front tires balanced, the steering started buckling a bit, especially when at low speeds, or starting from a stop and turning. By "buckling" I mean sorta like it was "crabbing", or, skipped to the next position, instead of smoothly turning on a radial-like arc. It was only a small amount, but it made me nervous, because I could feel it, and it presented more noise that I hadn't heard before. The steering box does have at least a small leak, but I have checked the fluid reservoir, and the leak isn't huge. I may be replacing it soon with one that has a better ratio. In addition to that, while driving in the rain, a bit too fast-I fishtailed and then jumped a curb. :spank: Didn't hit anything else, THANKFULLY! I fully expected not to be able to drive away, but I did, and at least I hit the curb on a diagonal, which I think helped. It now sounds worse, however, with a bit more noise than before, and now almost always moves to the left while braking. (The brakes aren't perfect, but I have been told they are OK-they seem like it, I stop fine when neccessary). So, would love to know if I will be likely having to replace anything other than basic suspension parts? Realise you are not under the car, having a look, but I ask this because I don't know what to have them check out when I take it in-and I will have to specifically ask, or I am not certain they will check, you know? I certainly did SOME damage, since I have noted the before/after differences. The curb was probably 8 or so inches high. Told ya this may sound stupid! Also, are the springs the culprit for a harsher ride (than what I expected)? Something else?
You need to ask around and find a reputable front end shop in your area and have them check out the car. Get the yellow pages from the phone book and start looking under automotive repair. They will give you a estimate before they do the work. Most of the "fast food muffler shops" aren't going to cut it in my opinion. No doubt you did some damage if you hit the curb. The steering should not skip a beat. Make a check of the power steering belt and its tightness as a quick check. Harsh ride can mean different things to different people I would think the car should float like the Electra. Make sure the tires are not pumped up to 50psi and that all the lug nuts are tight. I would not drive the car until you can get it looked at by a good front end shop. If one of your buddies knows about cars maybe he can help some on the basic stuff. Don't worry ther are no "stupid questions". Mike D.
Yeah, I have only driven it a few miles since this happened. I wish it "floated" like that Electra! The tires are nearly normal, about 32-35 psi. (And have been-just replaced the two in back and was checking). thanks Ok, so what should I get looked at besides the regular suspension parts, please?
Make sure the front end alignment is correct. You have to take the car to a shop and have it put on an alignment rack. Most shops now do a 4 wheel alignment. Also, make sure the brake wheel cylinders are not leaking. Mike D
I'd be willing to bet that when you smacked that curb you bent a tierod and knocked the allignment off. Go a real allignment shop and have them run the car and if it won't hold specs you've probably got something bent in there. I would think the tierod would alter your ackerman angle and cause one wheel to not track with its arc path causing it to slide sideways to recover, jerking the steering. As far as the floating feeling... thats spring rates and shock valving, generally floaty fealings come from lower spring rates and cushy shocks that allow the suspention to travel more before it damps out. Honestly I'd preffer a tight, well mannered ride to something that floats too much, that has lots of handling implications.
I agree with the others: Find a reputable alignment shop with good equipment and people. Easier to say than do. A bent tie rod won't affect ackerman, a bent steering arm will. Your "loose, rough" feeling might be in the control arm bushings. Upper ball joints can do the same thing. Easier to feel than see. If the car has a lot of miles on it, a rebush would be in order anyway. Is the center link loose? Have a friend wiggle the steering wheel and feel all the joints in the system. There should be NO looseness. Whether the car floats or not, it should feel solid. Good luck.
Pulling to one side during braking means the brakes are not "a-ok" - thats a problem - it could be one of those new parts you just put on, or a bad caliper, warped rotor, etc. also - you might consider looking at the tires on your ride - cheesed up tires can *completely* change how a car feels going down the road, and don't assume because you put new ones on that they're automatically good - tires aren't always round ( especially the "4 for $88" ones!) and they're never balanced without weights - and the lowest paid guy in the shop is doing the balancing, so assume nothing. Swap front for back and see if the handling changes... I'd take it in myself, and tell them the *whole* story - slight changes in alignment can also affect how the car feels, and alot of front-end guys toss the factory specs out the window to prevent wear on the tires, sometimes at the detriment of handling - or vice-versa... Good luck and let us know what you find... p
Both the front and rear tires are balanced. As far as the brakes go, the car does not have ideal vacuum, though it got better when I had it timed. Also, I was told the "auto-adjusting" portion of the brakes is likely needing new parts. The problem with the vacuum is I don't have the proper carb on it, (came without the right one-and was promised one by someone who seems to have wigged out) and I also do not know the proper places to hook it up-I'll need help there. Haven't been able to get the shop manual yet. Would love it if someone could post the pages that cover that-in pics-from the 63 (or 66)manual. It has a 63 JT code 401. Thanks-you guys have been helpful and answered a bunch of questions. I will be taking it in in the next couple of days-I get paid Thursday.
Don't trust the auto-adjusters on the brakes. Do what was previously suggested adjustment wise. Make sure linings are clean and drums are smooth (turned). Also regarding tire balancing: The tires may be balanced and look round but may roll like an egg under vehicle load. If you suspect out of roundness (bumpy at low speeds and/or shake at high speeds) find a shop with a Hunter Road Force balancer. It will actually load the tire to simulate vehicle weight and measure the runout before balancing.. it will then give the operator some options about curing any problems that are detected. Some are even equipped to detect pulling problems. A locator list can be found at www.GSP9700.com or linking from the hunter website, www.hunter.com. and putting in your zip code. Good luck.
Thanks Tom, though I am not too concerned with the tires having flat spots or being too out of round. I sorta doubt that is it-I would bet the springs need replacement. Like I said, the ride was sorta harsh, where I would feel-seemingly-every bump, where I wouldn't expect that in a "luxury" car. I know it's also meant to be a sporty car, but come on, it's rather heavy and relatively huge. I don't want a ride from this car that gives me as much road feel as my little Toyota. I defintely expect some kind of "cushion" in the ride. I don't expect very much in the way of sporty handling, the car is just too heavy, and I haven't got a custom suspension. As for the brakes, do you clean the linings, or replace them? How much to do that? I know turning the drums may be relatively inexpensive. Bby the way, is there any way to turn drums using home tools?
Chris, My son has a '66 - Love the car -his isn't a GS and it's broke. Dumb kid on cell phone ran a stop sign in front of him. OUCH! Anyway, can't do the drums at home. Good parts store is the cheapest place. If you're going to do a brake job (assuming the linings are worn), try to get a hardware kit at the same time (springs, etc), lube the contact points on the backing plates, and clean everything. Clean the whole mess before dissassembly. Current suggestion in industry is simply strong soap and water solution and flush afterward. Invironmentally friendly, etc. I still use brake clean in a spray can. DO NOT blow the dust with an air gun. Asbestos residue may be present. Bad stuff. Anyway, do one side at a time so you can see how they get reassembled. Adjust as much as you can before reassembly, then as previously explained. If you bleed (good idea) bleed the crap out of them to fully flush the 20 year old fluid. Remember brake fluid eats paint so be careful. Oops, almost forgot to mention axle seals and leaky cylinders. Gotta fix em if they are not dry. Period. They'll wreck a good brake job. One last note on the ride thing. I gave you crap about the big tires. I love big tires, but not to the detriment of the car. The tires themselves can louse up a ride. On top of that, big springs to hold up the car to make clearances, etc. You get the drift. The right tires, right springs, tight suspension and steering and a good alignment should solve the problems. Lotsa work. Good luck.
The most important part on that suspension/steering, and the most likely to go bad and cause trouble is the brake reaction rod bushings. Replace them and have the car re-aligned. Upper control arm bushings are also likely to be shot....These parts will cause wandering and pulling if they are worn. Also, the Riv GS has stiffer springs, which causes the harsh ride....it's supposed to drive like a sports car, not a boat. Also, the drum brakes on those cars sometimes pull a little when you apply the brakes, it's just the nature of the beast......12" drums are huge. :bglasses:
