New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller.. an MPG motor

Chris,

Sorry, I have been away from the computer here for a few days.

In answer to your questions

Performer or B4B won't matter..

Equivalent performance should be available from STG 1 type heads, either TA or Edelbrock, if they have similar flow rates (315cfm intake 225 exhaust). The STG 2 head is the easiest head to get these numbers from, both the STG 1 TA and Edelbrock will require more work in porting.

Yes, cam is custom ground, basically a roller cam version of a STG 1 cam in duration, with increased lift.

And I do sell the 470 stroker kits, with crank, rods, pistons, rings and rod bearings. I can also modify your oil pan for clearance for the rods, if your using a stock pan.

Thanks

JW

 

Re: Need to review rear-end situation (Re: 448ci STG 2. an MPG motor)

Edouard,

I'm going to do you a huge favor here and offer to trade you a milder BBB 462 for your fearful, terror inducing 448. I just can't bear to see my fellow Buick brother all eaten up with fear. I am sure I can tame your beast as I have done so in the past and I am sure you will be more than happy with my mild mannered motor that's in my '78 F150. It has proven to tow with the best of them while I drive it in total peace and safety.

Respectfully awaiting your reply.

Peace

 

You ain't taking my wagon's engine!! (Re: 448ci STG 2. an MPG motor)

Dear Paul and V-8 Buick assertive engine . . . . droolers . . .

Nice try pal . . . . but you ain't getting anywhere near my trusty wagon's new engine! :grin:

It has been a very long struggle and sure ain't over yet. But having come this far, somehow this engine is getting into my wagon!!

Latest problem - how to get a radiator for this car that will actually fit!!

*Sigh* . . . . ou:

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Edouard , LARRY70GS

Will either of you be attending the GS Nationals?

Would love to see both of your cars in person , maybe get a ride, likeing what I see with Tri-Sheild's and J.W.'s builds and eninges.

Drooling over both builds.

 

Same here...

My Regal Runs, but gotta figger out the odd overheating issues, (overheats one day, seems great the next) and lack of grunt it once had.

So it's just me and the wife and my mini van.

 

Still can't install the engine yet. (Re: New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller..)

Hi Chris and V-8 Buick assertive engine fans,

Neither me nor da' trusty wagon will be anywhere near the GS Nationals this year. While the engine is in Orinda, there are still snags in assembling the parts needed to get the engine to the car. Finally zeroed in on a radiator that will fit, but it will be two weeks before it arrives. I'm doing some improvements to the interior while all this is happening and these parts still need to be nailed down. So the engine installation is at least 2 week out. I would expect it will take a lot longer than typical swaps because this job will be more complex. The Vintage Air install is definitely going to slow things down.

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

I am still jealous of your engine Edouard!

 

Hoping there will be many copies (Re: New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller..)

Dear Randall and V-8 Buick assertive engine fans,

Well, if there is something I - didn't - expect, it is that this crowd would find the engine for my trusty wagon exciting. Jim laid out what he expected from the engine and he was expecting more out of it than I was.

However, given horsepower - surprise!! I do hope some number of other Buick enthusiasts will fork out the dough to have Jim build engines along these lines for them (especially after Jim streamlines assembly to reduce cost.) The talk around here is mostly about the thrills these cars can give you. Still when times are tight, the undercurrent of practicality does break through from time to time. If a muscle car becomes too ornery and hard to handle, the price for the thrill becomes too high. Such cars become vulnerable to the wide range of disasters that happen in everyday life: from health problems, to divorce, to unemployment.

I'll keep preaching my gospel of practicality because I love these old cars. If someone follows a few of my suggestions and ends up being able to hang on to a car when otherwise they would have had to sell it - all Buick fans are a little better off.

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

My pride and liking to assemble and tinker with engines keeps me from buying an engine from Jim. If I ever lose that interest and just want to drive the car, he'd be the first person I call.

 

So what's holding up the install? (Re: New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller..)

Dear V-8 Buick assertive engine fans,

I'm sure quite a few of you are wondering what is taking so long to get this engine into my trusty wagon.

Well, it is a L O N G and sad story. Rather then repeat it, I'll forward you'all to da' trusty wagon thread for all the latest twists and turns in this soap opera:

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-billy-goat-quot-Wagon!&p=2102432#post2102432

As you can see this process really is . . . . . s-s-s-s-simple!! ou:

Thanks for your support!! :TU:

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Emily still in the way. (Re: 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller.. an MPG motor)

Howdy Paul and fans of assertive wagon engines, :3gears:

Good try Paul, but the problem here isn't with JW's masterpiece . . . . but Emily . . . .

The latest word is that the powerglide transmission was built as a sealed unit, but was put in a vented housing (or the other way around - I don't remember.) The transmission was rebuilt by a local transmission shop over the past two weeks and came back to Orinda Motors yesterday. So the hope is that Emily will finally have her shakedown "cruises" and be sent off to the body shop leaving room for my trusty wagon to get its engine transplant.

In the meantime, I've been desperately struggling to come up with a template to cut the holes for the factory air conditioning vents on the outside of the dash. I've sure thrown some fancy graphic tools at the problem - but my templates aren't the correct shape. Fortunately, someone with a 65 Gran Sport has been interested enough in the problem to take his A/C vents off and has hopefully given me a clue on the the mistakes in my templates. I'll try again to straighten out all this tomorrow.

Oh, and family troubles have definitely kept me busy . . . . . .

So progress is definitely slow . . . :boring:

However, there is hope that Orinda Motors will be able to jump on this in December. Normally it is a slow time for them so they will run out of excuses!! :Brow:

Hope you had a nice Turkey day!! :TU:

Cheers, Edouard :beer

P.S. Just to be different, we had Chicken Scaloppine with Morel Mushrooms. A recipe by Jacques Pepin!

 

Still stuck behind the jinxed Bel Air. (Re: New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller..)

Howdy Paul and increasingly impatient fans of assertive wagon engines,

Sorry to report the key obstacle to "super-sizing" the engine in my trusty wagon is still there. Alas, the situation of the jinxed 57 Bel Air keeps going from bad to worse. My friend who owns the car is more "originality inclined" than pragmatic. So he insisted on trying to get an original 50s era Rochester carburetor on the car. However, after trying to rebuild three different ones, the engine still had a pronounced stumble. Finally he relented and Orinda Motors fitted an Edelbrock AVI thunder series carb. This restored the engine's performance. Alas, that immediately led to the next mishap.

During what was hoped would be the final shakedown drives, the main engine pulley worked itself loose. It didn't completely come up, but was damaged because the bolts that secured it had no thread-lock. This is an ominous sign because the engine on this car was build by an independent machine shop and it was assumed that job should have been correct and accurate. However, it had already been necessary to reseal the intact manifold because the wrong sealing compound was used. So the quality of the engine rebuild is now in doubt.

Late last week, I spoke with the service manager at Orinda Motors, and they were still hopeful to get the car to the point it could move on to body shop to repair the damage incurred when the brakes failed on (do you still remember?) September 24. 2012. However, that depends on this jinxed Chevy finally running out of surprises.

Alas, nothing to do but resolve other problems related to da' trusty wagon and indeed hope that the scriptures are correct: "Good things come to those who wait."

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Keep us updated! I would love to get some driving impressions and maybe track times because i have ordered the exact same cam package for my e-headed 467. My builder thought i was crazy when i first told him the cam specs but after reading this thread he became try curious. Unfortunately it will take another month or so before my engine is back in the car but i am VERY NERVOUS about using something that goes against the norm. On the other hand Jim is a specialist and he has the dynosheets to prove the results. A very tame cam that idles like stock but still pulls hard and likes to rev was too hard for me to resist...if it works i will buy another one for my Centurion....

 

You may be interested in this: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?261134-455-Hydraulic-roller-cam

It's just a hair over my impulse buy limit =P

 

Very nice engine, and great smooth performance numbers.
There is an 71 electra driving around here (from a friend of mine) and it has a TSP JW engine, with steel heads 70 heads, and Cam is 221-230 duration, .480 lift, and a Q-jet of course.
And here is the dynosheet, made nice torque numbers, and really gets that heavy beast going!

 

Hey Edouard - you're going to need bigger tires! :laugh:

- Bill

 

New tires, rear end, etc. (Re: New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller..)

Dear rollerball, Randall, Robert, Bill and fans of assertive V-8 Buick engines . . . .

Thanks for all the interest. Do hope this project will finally get underway soon. However, I can see that I've made things a little more complicated than probably prudent. Getting the Vintage Air system in will probably be a sizable project in it is own right. So this will be continuing for a few months before I get to drive the car much.

Yeah, . . . . . I know . . . .

I haven't put too much time into this yet, but I would really like to find some suitable high-performance radials that still have the 1960s narrow whitewall. This car has comparatively "timeless" styling and few people realize how old it really is. So I really would like to keep that feature to easily date it. So far I've got 3 leads:

1. Hankook tires makes performance whitewalls: http://www.hankooktireusa.com/Main/default.aspx. They have a good reputation, but it is a Korean tire company. *Sigh*, kinda sad to go there for tires to put on an American classic.
2. Hercules tire and rubber company at least is an American company: http://www.herculestire.com/. However, I've gotten one opinion that their products aren't up to the quality needed here.
3. Finally there is Diamond Back Classic Radials: http://www.dbtires.com/. They take existing tires and remanufacture them into whitewalls. In principle there you could buy any tires and have them converted to whitewall, but obviously this is more expensive.

I haven't looked too carefully beyond this, because one has to factor the rear end ratio into the tire choice. The car will need to be upgraded to a limited-slip differential. Obviously, I need to pick the correct ratio to get good fuel-economy and take advantage of all that torque. However, I don't want to bring the running RPM down so far that the engine is running in state that makes the car unpleasant to drive. Right now, our 2000 Buick Century has this annoying feature of of cruising at 40 mph while at essentially idle RPM when in overdrive. The car is quiet and smooth, but having to apply the brakes constantly to stay within a 35 mph speed limit - is at the very least annoying. This engine could make this sort of weird situation even more pronounced.

Oh well, gotta get the engine in the car and find out!

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Another tire option:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-546080/overview/