I need to know the diameter of the journal that the rope seal runs on in the 61-63 215. Does someone out there have an old 215 crank that they can measure? My 215 motor has a modified a 4.6 Rover crank. The rope seal was replaced using a 2-piece seal which lasted about 30 minutes. This 2-piece seal is intended for use only on the early 215 as the later aluminum motors had a nice 1-piece seal. It seems like a good idea to check the diameter of the seal running surface before trying this again.
Will your book have info on increasing the size of the 215? This Rover crank was simpler than using one from the 300.
2.2992 is the main bearing journal size without Under sizing. I am looking for the diameter of the running surface for the rear oil seal on the flywheel flange. That number will be over 3 inches. This 4.6 crank is 3.234 after a small clean up cut.
Many rope seal engines don't have accurate seal groove machining or even a blueprint call out for the run out tolerance range. The seal itself should have specs for intended size range, at least the old catalogs had the info in the interchange and specs section. You might already be aware but it is entirely reasonable to require machining the block to have the seal surface more concentric to the crank's main line.
The diameter of the surface that the seal contacts is the dimension that I am conserved with. I will be satisfied with the diameter of the crank flange for now. As for the seal groove, this is a non-starter. If the seal groove was found to need correction, it would have no clue where to have this done locally. The best way to put this rear main seal issue to rest would be to machine the block for a one piece Rover seal, but getting that done competently around here is unlikely. I checked automotive and non-automotive machine shops , but none were interested . I don't know where you are located, but here in this area we are in the pre-industrial age. An acquaintance had his Mopar block machined for a one-piece seal, but that was done in the north (where the best advice on this forum originates). So for now,I am trying to use the recommended 2-piece seal, cut down, from a 144-170 Ford 6, which had a larger diameter flange(sold by the aluminum V8 specialist for this purpose). What a way to do things!!
Anyone competent doing portable line boring in construction equipment has the capability to do it for appx. $75-100/hr. Buckets and articulating joints are welded back up and re-bored. Ships and other large things are done this way too. Machines that machine things that are too big to put into a machine are machined with more 'portable' or modular equipment The block is a sturdy jig. I guess the risks and abilities of the machinist is something you'd have to talk about. A long enough lathe can easily do the same thing, it just comes down to money. It should be as accurate as what you are willing to pay for. No matter what kind of neoprene seal you try will fail if not held concentric to the crank. There might be some way to 'float' or center the seal you use within the block's recess w/o machining it...if concentricity is truly is the issue. (just re-read that last part, gotcha!)
Good point regarding concentricity. The motor is now 95% assembled, so I will start it and see if the rear main still leaks. Does anyone know a shop that has actually machined an early 215 for a Rover one piece seal. would rather pay the shipping cost than trust an inexperienced shop to experiment.
Hope this isn't taken negatively...because I can appreciate the position you are in right now. Moot question. Shops that machine much more expensive things with tighter tolerances and have only one shot to get it right are out there 50 to 1 for every automotive rebuilder shop. A problem is that you would need to supply an accurate dimensional print for them to machine it to, or pay their engineer to come up with that. Those places survive because of the high demand and co$t$ or long running jobs, that's probably why you could be having difficulty hiring one. The actual number on the seal can be looked up to verify what dimension shaft it's intended for and what size housing it pushes into. You might find a seal that fits your actual crank (if different) and an easier way to adapt that seal to your block. If you don't get an answer on the shaft size you are looking for, you are now better equipped to take the steps needed to solve. If you are considering grinding the crank ...the engine is coming apart, so I'm confused by the comment regarding the 95% assembled. Honestly, a Bridgeport could bore the back of the block out centered on the main line. This is kids stuff for a non-rebuilder machine shop. I'm not certain there's a determination for the seals failure yet, it's just as likely to be dry install or off center. Have you ruled out the adapter plate yet?
I might have forgotten or already mentioned...a quick call to any crank grinding shop can look up your number. Don't call the local 1-5 man shop, look for a place that does only cranks and ships them.
DESPERATION RULES!!!!! Re 95%; I have very little confidence in this 2-piece seal, BUT, I chanced putting it together because my big event of the year, GoodGuys SE Nats, Oct. 20-22 is next week. SO, I am hoping for a miracle but getting prepared for failure. Tomorrow when I crank this thing up will tell the tale. Not wanting to take the time to build a run-in stand, I'm just going to drop this thing on the motor mounts and run it without the trans being bolted up. If it leaks badly, then I may yank it and cram a rope seal in it just to get thru this event. The rope seal was dripping very slowly but still making a mess of the super clean under belly. After this, it goes to a machinist for a one piece Rover seal. I may have found someone today who can modify this block. NEVER give up, never surrender! Once when I was young, I finished building and installing a motor for a Sports Car Club of America sedan racer at 6 AM on race day. The track was 4 hours away. We loaded the car on the trailer and started out with no sleep. Still the car was not finished; so as we rolled down the Florida Turnpike, I climbed aboard the unfinished racer, scooted under the dash and began wiring the electrics. At the track,while my buddy was registering the car, I was still frantically bolting this car together. We raced that weekend. Please clarify: "ruled out adapter plate"???? What adapter plate?? Talk about bad luck. just one hour ago, the hardened steel washer that holds the cam gear, shattered as the bolt was being torqued. Are we having fun??
I assumed you meant some sort of flange was being adapted to hold the seal that could float somewhat before bolting in. I think I get it better this time I was hoping you'd be able to ascertain it's alignment to the crank before running it. Maybe if the shaft is a smidge too big, some of the spring tension could be lessened? Love the spirit and determination!
There is no spring in the seal. This seal is from a 170 cubic inch Ford 6 cyl vintage 1960?? The Ford had a larger crank flange so the seal had to be cut down. This is not the ideal way to do things, but this is what is recommended by the aluminum V8 .com shop. It has been tiring but the motor is in and will be test run this morning. If the motor runs for an hour without a serious leak, then I'll be looking for a strong assistant to help lift the 700R4 trans into place. Definitely getting too old for this work.
