My First Buick Build

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Vortecpro, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Steve Schlater

    Steve Schlater Well-Known Member

    Nice Job !!!! I'm curious to see how much it picks-up in the car....keep us posted.
     
  2. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    Thanks. I think theres a few more HP to tune out of it, I just got the valve train figured out, still has the 30w break in oil in there, want make a spark plug change and work with the header collectors and get the carb spot on. I'm hoping for 10.70s in F/SA @ 3635 and 10.80s in G/SA in good conditions, 29.6 baro or higher. Then theres the rolling car (trans and differential), which I know theres 2 tenths there its just a matter of how much money I want to spend. I do have to admit for some reason I really like this whole thing, it sure looks real stock sitting on the dyno, I will have to take some pictures and post them. I've cut open 2 oil filters so far and they look excellent.
     
  3. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

     
  4. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    My 455 build is finished, final numbers. Should be good for high 10.60s low 10.70s in F/SA in good conditions. My only regret is not building the 1970 version of the stage 1 455 a whole different animal, 2.75 points more compression, .125 larger valve, .090 more cam lift, maybe next time.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 23, 2017 at 1:14 PM
  5. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill Well-Known Member

    Nice numbers for a stock style build!

    Is this going to run manifolds in the car? And what size ex. pipes and what mufflers?


    Derek
     
  6. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    Here's to hoping there is a "next time".

    Nice job!
     
  7. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    For real, I'm super impressed dude. Just for curiosity sake what you think that build would net 580ish dare I say 600?
     
  8. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    Thanks for the nice comments. Heres my thoughts on that using Jason Line as a example. Lines C/SA Buick runs @ 3635 so he probably was around 3650 on his last outing, the car ran 1.33/4.00/6.317 105.3 MPH, I believe the conditions were good with a 30 + plus baro, but I can't verify that. I believe that 6.317 converts to a 10.0s pass using 1.58 for a factor, I believe the car would run around 129.2 in the quarter showing 614 observed HP, the actual 105.3 he ran in the 1/8 shows 618 observed HP, remember the dyno corrects @ 29.92, so in a 30.0 plus baro the engine is benefiting from super charging. So to answer your question, the 1970 Stage 1 455 in NHRA stock eliminator trim can make between 590-610 corrected STP HP on a calibrated SF dyno. I can tell you this, when you lift that valve from .398 to .490 lift its a tremendous increase in flow, now go from a 2.009 valve to a 2.129 valve your looking at probably 30 more CFM than my heads have, and 14 cc more port volume, then theres the compression, 10.69 compared to 13.2 compression. So heres the difference:

    More port volume 14 CCs
    .125 larger intake valve
    An extra .092 intake valve lift
    Compression raise from 10.69 to 13.2

    So this amounts to a substantial HP increase but, theres another thing to consider, RPM and HP carry, I believe Line runs this car through the lights at 7000 plus RPM, and peaks around 6300 RPM on the dyno, more converter more gear. What does surprise me is the 60 foot isn't faster, but the 330 is fast, I've seen 10.20 cars run 1.28-1.29 60 foots, although these cars run @ 3350 I believe.
     
  9. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Amazing what you smart fellas can do with so little, while us knuckle draggers have to throw the works at a setup haha,.. good job man
     
  10. Steve Schlater

    Steve Schlater Well-Known Member

    Mark,
    Whats the rest of your combo ?
    Transmission ?
    Converter ?
    Gear ?
    Any idea what RPM you intend to shift and cross the stripe ?
    Just curious.....
     
  11. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    Turbo 400
    Moser 12 bolt
    My current combination which came with the car when I bought it is:

    Turbo 400 stock gear stack
    TCI 8 inch converter
    Moser 12 bolt 4.10 gear

    I believe with the old engine @ 2130 feet elevation, the converter flashed 4200 and went through the traps @ 5800 RPM. My plan if this thing runs is to build a new short block with all the latest parts, and put my heads and intake on the new short block. The trans will be changed to a metric 200 with a ATI converter, the rear end will be a TRRC light weight 12 bolt with 4.30 gears, the brakes will be light weight as well, but thats only if I can get this thing in the low 10.70s as is.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise GOT AIR? Staff Member

    Nice Job on your first Stock build... mentioned those numbers to my dyno guy, I think he tested Jason line's motors back in the 90's before they bought their own dyno... The E stock combo he was running made about those numbers in 93, when he won the championship. Pretty sure he ran that car as a 71 with that same small valve combo.

    IN any event, with similar power as what you have there, he could run a 10.70 consistantly at BIR with that car back in the 90's, His best legal pass was a 10.62 at 122..

    You guys have come a long way since NHRA started relying on port volumes for the Stocker heads... 14cc difference makes me chuckle.. out of the exact same casting.

    I had wondered why I had started to see that C stock 70 stage combo coming back, when learned that NHRA was relying on port volume now, and it's considerably different between the 70 and 71 heads, that explains why.

    Have fun with it.

    JW
     
  13. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    Thanks, I guess I should be happy it didn't blow up. Some info on the 1971 E/SA combination

    1971 Buick Gran Sport Coupe 2 Dr Hdtp with 345 HP 455 Cu In Engine

    Shipping Weight: 3657 lbs Wheelbase: 112"

    Stock Classes HPFactor: 360 Power/Weight Factor: 10.15

    Stock Classes Class Min Wgt Over/Under Shipping Wgt Min Wgt w/Driver 1/4 Mile Man Index 1/4 Mile Auto Index 1/8 Mile Man Index 1/8 Mile Auto Index
    Lightened Class D/S and D/SA - 9.50 Lb/HP 3420 -237 3590 11.50 11.55 7.39 7.42
    Natural Class E/S and E/SA - 10.00 Lb/HP 3600 -57 3770 11.65 11.70 7.47 7.50
    Weighted Class F/S and F/SA - 10.50 Lb/HP 3780 123 3950 11.80 11.85 7.57 7.60

    E/SA runs @ 3770 with driver, but appears to be the 1971 Stage 1 combination.



    Engine Blueprint Specifications: 1971 Buick 345 HP 455 V8

    BUI-71 Issued: 5/24/1971 Last Revised: 2/24/1996 Revisions: 1-1-96, 2-24-96

    Engine Family: General Motors, Buick V8 Big Advertised Comp Ratio: 10.50:1 Induction: 1-4 Bbl Engine Type: V8

    Basic Specs: Bore Stroke Main Journal Dia Rod Journal Dia Max Bore Max Stroke Max Displacement
    4.313" 3.900" 3.250" 2.250" 4.393" 3.915" 474.7 ci



    Piston-Rod Specs: Piston Weight Comp Height Pin Weight Rings Rings Weight Rod C/C Max Rod C/C Rod Weight Min Assy Weight
    634 g 1.900" 90 g 5/64, 5/64, 3/16 63 g 6.600" 6.625" 723 g 1510 g



    Compression: Deck Height Head Gasket Piston Type Dome/Dish Vol Dome/Dish Hgt Comb Chamber Vol Max Compression
    .010" .041" Dished -28.70 cc -0.140" 59.0 cc 10.69:1



    Valve Train: Int Rocker Ratio Exh Rocker Ratio Intake Valve Exhaust Valve Lifter Type Spring Type Lifter Dia.
    1.55:1 1.55:1 2.130" 1.755" Hyd Outer w/damper 0.842"




    Camshaft: Intake Lift Exhaust Lift
    .490" .490"



    Cylinder Heads: Casting No. Intake Volume Exhaust Volume
    1237661 L 184.0cc 142.0cc 2 Ports at 139.0 and 2 at 158.0 Large valve head
    1240149 L 186.0cc 142.0cc Large valves
    Edelbrock 60037 Same runner cc's, chamber cc's, valve sizes as the OEM head being replaced, intake & exhaust.





    Intake Manifolds: Casting No.
    1236403 Cast Iron



    Carburetors: Number Manufacturer Trans Type Primary Throttle Secondary Throttle Primary Venturi Secondary Venturi
    1903 Edelbrock ALL 4-Bbl 1.375" 2.250" 1.233" .000" AV Secondary. Replacement for GM large venturi Quadrajet. NOTE: Venturi specs include .015" maximum allowable tolerance.
    4MV-7041242 Rochester ALL 4-Bbl 1.375" 2.250" 1.218" .000" Air valve secondary







    Power Factors: Stock Man Stock Auto S/S Man S/S Auto GT Man GT Auto GTFwd Man GTFwd Auto
    Base Factors 360 360 295 295 295 295 295 295
    w/Rep Heads: Edelbrock #60037 0 0 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13



    Accepted Replacement Pistons for Stock Eliminator

    Effective 8/31/2011
    Specs: Comp Hgt-1.900" Pin Dia-1.000" Rings-5/64, 5/64, 3/16
    Distance to Top Ring-0.220" Piston Min Weight-634g



    Manufacturer Part Number
    CP Pistons B2-CP
    JE 191257
    Ross 73555
    Sealed Power 2362
    TRW L2353
    Venolia 345-455
    Venolia 455




    Accepted Replacement Connecting Rods for Stock or S/S

    Effective 4/17/2017
    Specs: C/C Length- 6.607" Min Weight- 748g Journal Dia- 2.250" Big End Dia- 2.374" Pin Dia- 0.996"



    Manufacturer Part Number C/C Length Wgt. Pin Dia.
    Carrillo BU-3455-0HS-6607B7S 6.606" 765g 0.990" Pontiac
    Carrillo C427-76635S 6.625" 834g 0.990" Pontiac
    Carrillo C427-A76635H 6.625" 787g 0.990" Pontiac
    Childs & Albert 389-12 6.625" NA 0.947" Pontiac
    Crower F91059 6.625" NA 0.981" Pontiac
    Crower SP93419 6.625" 830g 0.947" Pontiac
    Eagle CRS-6625P3D 6.625" 760g 0.947" Pontiac
    Eagle CRS-6635 6.635" 760g 0.947" Pontiac
    Molnar Technologies BH6600WUB8-A 6.604" 748g 1.000" Buick
    Oliver ORPPONT6625 6.625" NA 0.981" Pontiac
    Oliver P6225PONT 6.625" 790g 0.980" Pontiac
    Oliver P6625PONTFR8 6.625" 819g 0.980" Pontiac
    TA TA 1633 6.607" 771g 0.996" 400/455 Buick


    Note the calculations for actual displacement the maximum actual compression ratio.


    Would you like to see a list of all the cars where this engine is used? Click here:


    Copyright © 2014 - Southerland Consulting Contact: admin@classracerinfo.com[​IMG]



    Engine Blueprint Specifications: 1971 Buick 345 HP 455 V8

    BUI-71 Issued: 5/24/1971 Last Revised: 2/24/1996 Revisions: 1-1-96, 2-24-96

    Engine Family: General Motors, Buick V8 Big Advertised Comp Ratio: 10.50:1 Induction: 1-4 Bbl Engine Type: V8

    Basic Specs: Bore Stroke Main Journal Dia Rod Journal Dia Max Bore Max Stroke Max Displacement
    4.313" 3.900" 3.250" 2.250" 4.393" 3.915" 474.7 ci



    Piston-Rod Specs: Piston Weight Comp Height Pin Weight Rings Rings Weight Rod C/C Max Rod C/C Rod Weight Min Assy Weight
    634 g 1.900" 90 g 5/64, 5/64, 3/16 63 g 6.600" 6.625" 723 g 1510 g



    Compression: Deck Height Head Gasket Piston Type Dome/Dish Vol Dome/Dish Hgt Comb Chamber Vol Max Compression
    .010" .041" Dished -28.70 cc -0.140" 59.0 cc 10.69:1



    Valve Train: Int Rocker Ratio Exh Rocker Ratio Intake Valve Exhaust Valve Lifter Type Spring Type Lifter Dia.
    1.55:1 1.55:1 2.130" 1.755" Hyd Outer w/damper 0.842"




    Camshaft: Intake Lift Exhaust Lift
    .490" .490"



    Cylinder Heads: Casting No. Intake Volume Exhaust Volume
    1237661 L 184.0cc 142.0cc 2 Ports at 139.0 and 2 at 158.0 Large valve head
    1240149 L 186.0cc 142.0cc Large valves
    Edelbrock 60037 Same runner cc's, chamber cc's, valve sizes as the OEM head being replaced, intake & exhaust.





    Intake Manifolds: Casting No.
    1236403 Cast Iron



    Carburetors: Number Manufacturer Trans Type Primary Throttle Secondary Throttle Primary Venturi Secondary Venturi
    1903 Edelbrock ALL 4-Bbl 1.375" 2.250" 1.233" .000" AV Secondary. Replacement for GM large venturi Quadrajet. NOTE: Venturi specs include .015" maximum allowable tolerance.
    4MV-7041242 Rochester ALL 4-Bbl 1.375" 2.250" 1.218" .000" Air valve secondary







    Power Factors: Stock Man Stock Auto S/S Man S/S Auto GT Man GT Auto GTFwd Man GTFwd Auto
    Base Factors 360 360 295 295 295 295 295 295
    w/Rep Heads: Edelbrock #60037 0 0 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13 305 11/12/13



    Accepted Replacement Pistons for Stock Eliminator

    Effective 8/31/2011
    Specs: Comp Hgt-1.900" Pin Dia-1.000" Rings-5/64, 5/64, 3/16
    Distance to Top Ring-0.220" Piston Min Weight-634g



    Manufacturer Part Number
    CP Pistons B2-CP
    JE 191257
    Ross 73555
    Sealed Power 2362
    TRW L2353
    Venolia 345-455
    Venolia 455




    Accepted Replacement Connecting Rods for Stock or S/S

    Effective 4/17/2017
    Specs: C/C Length- 6.607" Min Weight- 748g Journal Dia- 2.250" Big End Dia- 2.374" Pin Dia- 0.996"



    Manufacturer Part Number C/C Length Wgt. Pin Dia.
    Carrillo BU-3455-0HS-6607B7S 6.606" 765g 0.990" Pontiac
    Carrillo C427-76635S 6.625" 834g 0.990" Pontiac
    Carrillo C427-A76635H 6.625" 787g 0.990" Pontiac
    Childs & Albert 389-12 6.625" NA 0.947" Pontiac
    Crower F91059 6.625" NA 0.981" Pontiac
    Crower SP93419 6.625" 830g 0.947" Pontiac
    Eagle CRS-6625P3D 6.625" 760g 0.947" Pontiac
    Eagle CRS-6635 6.635" 760g 0.947" Pontiac
    Molnar Technologies BH6600WUB8-A 6.604" 748g 1.000" Buick
    Oliver ORPPONT6625 6.625" NA 0.981" Pontiac
    Oliver P6225PONT 6.625" 790g 0.980" Pontiac
    Oliver P6625PONTFR8 6.625" 819g 0.980" Pontiac
    TA TA 1633 6.607" 771g 0.996" 400/455 Buick


    Note the calculations for actual displacement the maximum actual compression ratio.


    Would you like to see a list of all the cars where this engine is used? Click here:


    Copyright © 2014 - Southerland Consulting Contact: admin@classracerinfo.com[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017 at 3:57 PM
  14. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise GOT AIR? Staff Member

    Last edited: May 25, 2017 at 12:19 PM
  15. standup 69

    standup 69 standup69

    I know lines car did 1.28 sixtys before when alf was testing
     
  16. Vortecpro

    Vortecpro Vortecpro

    That makes sense.
     

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