checked a little into it.. I actually didn't disconnect the alt exciter wire, I disconnected the 2 prong plug that went to the bottom of the alternator my alt wire was still connected. so I just disconnected the alt exciter wire and I was getting 13-14 volts to fuse block and batt. it would jump up to 14 volts intermittently. so I guess my final question to this saga is, it seemed to be more stable with the alt exciter wire connected (I will leave the plastic 2 prong plug disconnected no matter what) should I leave the exciter wire connected?
well, did it again..... fried yet another starter (#3 for those of you that are counting). took the car to work yesterday (35 mile drive) while driving there noticed that while driving I was getting between 13.3-13.7 volts. when I was costing to a stop it would drop to between 12.5-12.7 volts. got to work car sat for 7 hours, went to start it and started up no worries easy as can be. filled up on gas and it started right up. then drove it home (again about 35 miles) whe I got home I wanted to see what would happen wen I tried to start it up when hot and sure enough is struggled to start voltage was dropping to about 8-9 volts and then the starter fried started making the dreaded Zinnnggg sound. sending it off to Jamie to fix. I have 3 old battery cables im going to splice together and run them directly from the alternator to the battery, and see if that helps. im still open to ideas if anyone has any ideas.... im at my wits end any ideas are welcomed. even entertaining the idea of putting the battery back up to the front of the car, but I really don't want to do that.
I'm sending you a pm with a link... ---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ---------- Your box is full...
Dan, I'm thinking...... You have a high resistance from alternator to the battery, dropping voltage from fuse panel to battery. You must have a good direct cable from alternator to battery(as well as good grounds). If your common point is at the starter, it comes back up to the alternator. With the exciter wire hooked up, it is seeing low voltage on THAT wire. That connection takes priority and kicks the regulator up to compensate. By disconnecting that wire, it defaults to the voltage on the output terminal. Does that make sense? You need the alternator output on the starter hot post. Does that defeat the quick connect kill feature. You can't charge the battery through the fuse panel. Correct me If I don't fully understand the "in trunk" setup.
I've been watching this thread and it occurred to me that I have not seen you check the battery voltage with the car not running. Way back when I was an ASE master I remember there being a diagram of some sort showing a battery, an alternator, a starter and battery cables. The short version of the rule of thumb that was that if any one of the components were bad they would often kill one or more of the others. In this case a weak battery (low voltage) means more current to do the necessary work which will often burn up the starter motor windings.... Might be worth yanking the battery and having it load tested as well. As previously stated I don't think you can go too big on wire size for these remote battery applications. Additionally are you using molded on battery terminals or those hokey strap on top clamp types? Anyway, keep us informed.
In your first post, you said you ran welding cable for hot and ground, hot to relay and ground to chassis. What did you mean by chassis? It needs to be grounded on shiny frame spot and then from front, same size cable from frame to engine. Is that the way it is grounded? Just fishing, because you still have issues with the starter also. ---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ---------- With a good meter you can check voltage drop across ANY connection, hot or ground. Check voltage drops while cranking as well as running and static. It is there. Simply put one lead on one side of the connection and one on the other.
Much of the time when a battery is moved to the trunk the ground is the biggest issue. I have read that the best remedy is to run a good 1/0 ground cable up to one of the bolts on the transmission tailshaft housing rather than to the body or frame. It's gotta be worth a try.
thank you all for the ideas. texasjohn; I am in the process of running battery cable size wire (1/0 ?) directly from the back of the alternator to the battery. should be done by tomorrow. years ago I had a buddy weld a bolt to the frame under where the battery is located in the trunk, that is where I have it grounded to., directly the frame. Ken; I am using an optima battery in the trunk. using a header bolt to secure the battery cable to the battery. while I have the battery disconnected to run the new alternator wire, I guess I will take it to someone to load test it. golden oldie: are you saying ground the battery to the rear of the transmission? I do have 2 ground cables up in the front of the engine compartment.
Yes. Originally the battery ground cables are bolted directly to the engine block or head, so why would you not want to continue having the battery ground connected the same way? The transmission tailshaft housing is the closest location to put it with a trunk mounted battery.
Get rid of the optima. IMO they are junk, unless you are in a trophy truck, boat or some low/no suspension vehicle they are not needed. We threw one in the trash this week at Drag Week because it was killing the alternator. If anything, try another battery for a while. Do you still have a battery tray front to move the battery back as a test?
i no longer have the battery tray up front. all of my wiring is very neatly tucked away going to the trunk, so it will be a big deal to move everything. i cant just throw away an expensive battery.... but when it dies i wont buy another one, if that is your suggestion. quick update... took the battery to a local battery store, they say that it is still good, not 100%, but good. replaced the starter (#4) the car started right up, checked the voltage at the battery, im now getting 14.3 volts at the battery (up from 13.5) after the alternator cable to battery upgrade. so that is a great improvement. talked with Jamie the other day, he suggested that i may need to shim my starter. this is from him going through the broken starters. so im going to bring my car to a shop, since i don't have a set of feeler gages.
brought the car to a local automotive electrical specialist. I asked them to look to see if the starter needs a shim, they said that it dosent. they also checked the alternator, battery and connections. everything looked good. they also say that the next starter is on its way out they say that there is a heavy load on it. so, now I think the only thing left is the timing. they say that it appears that the engine may be kicking back when starting which is killing the starters. so what could cause this? too high timing at start? too much fuel at start? remember I have my EFI controlling all of my timing and fuel management.
too much advance it sounds like. what is base timing set at. first thing check your grounds. You Need a battery to frame ground or (chassis ground,CG) , body ground(BG) and engine ground(eg). All three should have continuity (A path for electricity to travel). set your meter to ohm's to measure resistance. ( the horseshoe) take your red lead and touch your engine block on a clean bolt and take you blk lead and go to a clean piece of metal on the frame. This is called a continuity test and your checking the resistance for CG and EG. Check EG to BG and BG to CG. You should not have more than .01 -.02 depending on your meter. I run a remote battery in my skylark and run two starter solonoids and a 200amp circuit breaker. It is very unsafe to have unfused battery cables. If done right you will only have a very short piece of battery cable that is unfused. I run a 4awg from my alt, to my fuse box and from fuse box to my circuit breaker in the truck, Circuit breaker to positive side of battery. I run a 00 wire from a starter solenoid in the trunk to the starter solenoid on the engine and the both engage off the 12 volt signal from the ign s/w. That big wire is only hot under the crank postion so if get into a accident it is not live. feel free to pm me with questions or I can post up some pictures Paul 66larkgs Turbocharged Nailhead
Your burning up high torque starters? If your not running a high torque starter then it is time to invest and not look back. This would be much easier on your battery too.
Sure, too much timing while cranking is the biggest factor in kickback and breaking starters. Don't you have some EFI programming adjust ability when it comes to timing? I have my timing locked out at 35*, and the MSD box has a 20* crank retard so it starts at 15*.
yes, my efi controls all my timing. there are a lot of *tweeks that are available with the efi, but unfortunately im not well versed in what or how all of the adjustments work.
yes Jamie, I know, you have been an amazing help. but I also had some other issues ie. cracked block and voltage drop issues.
I just took a look at the instructions for the Atomic EFI. Seems pretty simple if you just follow the directions. You will need to lock the timing out. You will need an adjustable rotor to set rotor phase. Then you will need to punch in the timing parameters. I suggest you do that unless you want to keep buying starters.
