Looking for 70 GS stage 1 or GSX stage 1

Discussion in 'Cars wanted' started by 03dakrt, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. dl7265

    dl7265 No car then Mopar


    O come on, help a fellow Sooner out ! :TU: Beside you already have one

    DL
     
  2. GSXyGal

    GSXyGal 70 QQ GSX Stage 1

    Texas Sooner, eh?? Go ahead, jump on in there...I'll back off. It's only up to 5300 now, so still pretty cheap! :TU: I've already been outbid anyways. Five grand was about the best I could do given the abundance of info and pics provided. :rolleyes:
     
  3. MIKE Z buicks

    MIKE Z buicks Well-Known Member

    No response to PM- Maybe he found something?
     
  4. MikeM

    MikeM Mississippi Buicks

    Reason I asked is because I have that documented 70GS Stage1 auto, AC high optioned car (including passenger trishield mirror) I reimported from Japan being gone through down at Mike Garrison's shop. Matching trans but not block. White with brown vinyl top and buckskin interior. Solid driver with a lot of hotchkis stuff on the rear end. New exhaust, wheels, tires, paint, top, and various little stuff. Would be fun to drive and race, presentable at shows. Not now or never will be concourse, but also nowhere near what those things cost either.
     
  5. 03dakrt

    03dakrt Active Member

    Keep the replys coming guys.
     
  6. Rich Johns

    Rich Johns Platinum Level Contributor

    Mike I agree with you just because a car does not have it's original engine does not diminish the value .
    The ironic thing is everyone shopping for a car wants a #'s matching car but have no clue where engine stamped codes , VIN are stamped, or date codes are anyway.
    Secondly,most people want a nice presentable showy driver to have fun with locally around their homes ie local shows ,local drag strip, and I can assure you no one at those local shows will know where the #'s are!
    As long as there is what is suppose to be there no one cares!
    Thirdly, the The pedigree of any car is the paperwork/documentation of the cars VIN not the engine.
    And those who want #'s matching engines, who are they trying to impress ,the concours judges at the GS Nationals? Well guess what ,they could care less as well !
     
  7. Eric

    Eric Founders Club Member

    Plain & simple fact...
    "Worth" of any one car is driven by each seller/buyers agreed upon sale price...
    Not what someone else sold their car for at some other time.
    Anything sold by anybody is subject to a laundry list of variants
    that effects its price. Emotion is the biggest motivator to sell/buy price.

    Eric :3gears:
     
  8. 1972 Stage 1

    1972 Stage 1 Well-Known Member

    :gp: , Rich!

    I could not agree more. There are many, many "numbers matching" cars out there, and by definition, the block numbers do match. But some are not the original blocks, but correctly date coded ones that have been re-stamped. As long as it is for display or originality's sake, and it is disclosed when asked, I believe it's OK to do that. But when people do it to increase the car's value, then sell the "numbers matching" car to someone and not disclose it, then I believe it's fraud.

    03dakrt - Welcome to v8buick. Are you a new member, or just flying under a different name to locate a car? There are currently several GSX cars for sale, and it may be a good time to find a deal. Feel free to sign your name if you are new. :TU:
     
  9. MIKE Z buicks

    MIKE Z buicks Well-Known Member

    It is a matter of supply and demand. The number of "pedigree" 70 stage 1 cars available to the enthusiast that knows their "value" is shrinking. Most on the market are either nut and bolt mega dollar restorations or a barn find past the point of saving. You can't "make" a numbers car. That is why they will always be worth more down the road,no matter what the musclecar market is like. Good luck in your search.
     
  10. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    I have to disagree. If you look at cars currently for sale and cars that have sold in the past the numbers matching drivetrain does have a cost associated with it. I believe this is more preception of the hobby. I good example of this is the 1970 GSX white 4-speed that Nicky Chicago had for $75K and had a hard time selling vs a some of the other 4-speed numbers matching cars that are over $100K. Ask any seller who has a non numbers matching drivetrain car if they were able to get the same price for the car as a numbers matching car. I believe most will tell you they could not.

    It is simply a matter of desire similar to having a 4-speed vs an automatic. IMHO, A numbers matching car is more desired and harder to find than a non numbers matching car and becuase of this people precieve that the car is worth more money.

    Mark
     
  11. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    You are on the money Mark. It is even more important on the high end of the car sale scale. It is the first question that you are asked after they first determine that it is a nice restoration and not a tribute car.
     
  12. 1972 Stage 1

    1972 Stage 1 Well-Known Member

    Mark,

    I wasn't trying to say that numbers matching cars are not worth more, because they obviously are. I agree with you 100% based off the history of sales and the rarity of them. No doubt about it. I was merely agreeing with MikeM and Rich Johns that to me, the correct numbers matching block or drive train is not worth tens of thousands more than a non-numbers car that was restored equally or better than a numbers matching car. With today's quality of re-stamping out there, unless you know the cars history first hand from when it was new, it could have been re-stamped somewhere along the way, and passed off thru time as the original drive train.

    There have even been "documented factory screw ups" in regards to both serial numbers and SS stampings, so is that car considered numbers matching and worth more since the numbers don't match, but the drive train is supposedly original? Not to me.
     
  13. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    James,

    My apologies, that was my misunderstanding. I thought that you saying that a non numbers matching car would not diminish the value of the car in market place. I was also not trying to single you out. When I hit quote I thought it would bring forward your quote and Richard's quote.

    Mark
     
  14. Rich Johns

    Rich Johns Platinum Level Contributor

    Mark
    I agree that a #'s matching car is worth marginally more than a non matching correct engine for application of car ,but only a minor amount.
    If :ball: my cars did not have their original engines I could care less, I still would have bought them because I was buying the Pedigree of the car not just a motor.Honestly,once you own a car no one cares or asks if you have the original engine at home because it is really not that important the car itself is not the engine.
    In short, value is in the the pedigree of the car and the documentation supporting that VIN.That is 90 % of the value.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2007
  15. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    Richard,

    IMHO some cases are more important than others. I think a Stage-1 is a good example of this. What is the difference between a Stage-1 and a 455 big block Buick. The difference is mostly engine componants to the tune of 20-30 HP or so but the cost difference is substantial. If you have a 1970 Stage-1 GS vs 1970 GS 455 both concourse restored the Stage-1 brings significantly more money. If you have a Stage-1 car that does not have the orginal motor but may have a 455 with Stage-1 parts the price difference is not marginal.

    I have been in this exact situation. I had a 1970 Stage-1 GS with a non numbers motor and it brought a fraction of what a numbers matching car was bringing. This was a real Stage-1 car with abosultely no rust in perfect condition and it sold for less than half of what a numbers matching car was selling for and that was after having the car for sale for more than 6 months. In the case of a Stage-1 GS for most enthusiasts it is not enough that the car has a Buick 455 with Stage-1 componants, at least that has been my observation and experience.

    I believe you that at least the asking price for numbers matching Stage-1 GS's is typically higher than non-numbers cars.

    Mark
     
  16. farmer!boy

    farmer!boy Well-Known Member

    I got one, it will be at least 15 years till I am ready to sell it. Sorry, Pat
     
  17. dl7265

    dl7265 No car then Mopar


    I'm not sure how fair it is to pick on Janelle's car. It is not exactally restored, and it was driven and enjoyed. Personally, my knowledge and time with the car, that would have been the one I would have bought if I had the :dollar: I guess you could say the sentimental value outweighed the numbers matching.

    Regards,
    DL
     
  18. 03dakrt

    03dakrt Active Member

    Just wanted to thank everyone for their help! Bought a 70 GSX, saturn yellow, auto, non-ac car!!!!
     
  19. jimbobbuickboy

    jimbobbuickboy Well-Known Member



    Congrats on your purchase! :beer

    Share the joy...........photos and details please.
     
  20. 1 bad gs

    1 bad gs Well-Known Member

    congrats 03dakrt! l:beer
     

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