Kenne-Bell 350 testing from 1984

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by sean Buick 76, Jan 24, 2007.

  1. Bob the Tomatoe

    Bob the Tomatoe King of Tomatoe Land!

    Bob Mando,

    Thanks for the clarification. I did read "high" as "tall".
    My apologies for the mix-up.
    -----------------------------

    71CustConv,

    My apologies to you, as well, for the mix-up.
    From what I understand, the 700R4 was designed to "lug" the engine a little more, since the newer engines were being designed with fatter low - mid ranges, so the taller overall gearing in second gear (700R4 + 3.42 vs. TH350 + 4.10) would keep the R's low, and keep the engine in its power range.
    The TH350 would allow the engine to wind up a little higher, so I guess it depends on the application.
    If your engine is built with more power in the mid-upper RPM range, then it might behoove you to use a TH350, otherwise, the taller overall gearing (second gear + final drive) of the 700R4 would seem to be advantageous to the low end "grunt" that any fairly stock Buick V8 is known for.
    The wider spread in the gears of the 700R4 would say to me that maybe you just need to stretch 1st gear out a little longer?
    ------------------------------

    Sean,

    I didn't say the TH200 was a "bad" tranny, I said it was designed for a lower power application.
    You put too much power in front of any tranny, without modifying it, and it won't last long.
    Also, no 700R4 with BOP bellhosing pattern?
    What about all those Caddy's that used OLDS 350 power and OD auto tranny's?
    Those weren't 4L80's.



    Bob
     
  2. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Bob there were many olds 307 cars that had 200r4 tran$ and they make great swap candidates because they were run on Q jet engines. The 85 and later 700R4 are GREAT! I have a great shifting one in my 85 Safari van with carbed 4.3 and 300 KM or 200 miles.
     
  3. gm4life

    gm4life if you let up you loose

    i dis my 2004r swap 10 years ago when i bought the car the trans was junk i had a 2004r out of a gn that was just collecting dust. i registered my car about a month ago after reading posts on this forum and my buddy breaking my nu$$ because it was sitting in the yard and they new it ran
    i have justed hokked up my lock up converter with a kit from b@m it came with a module and a speed sensor and a little jumper cable in about one hr i had it all done in one hr with thr module on the front seat took her out for a ride after driving her around i settled on 35 mph it will lock up in third
    and 4th i go for a nice ride up the highway with a buudy on his bike
    my speedo was reading 60 i was doing 75 i dont have a tach yet but the motor wasnt screaning this thing cruises very nice the gn converter seems a little loose for my stock motor but once the converter locks up it feels like someone started pushing me it stays locked up even at high throttle loads I LOVE IT my first old car that cruises the highway in the left lane all i need now is flash to pass so that new iron will move over and let the old buick cruise on by all i need now is about 200 more hp and i will be happy
     
  4. Bob the Tomatoe

    Bob the Tomatoe King of Tomatoe Land!

    gm4life,

    FWIW, the 2004R used a .67:1 4th gear.
    Just multiply that number by your axle ratio and that's your effective FDR when driving in 4th gear.
    I believe it can change 4.10's to (approx.) 2.75's, so I'm not surprised you can cruise quickly without spinning the engine too hard.
    Congrats on your build. I'm sure she's a real winner.


    Elvis
     
  5. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Bump to the top... Note the changes in quarter mile times with the different carbs...
     
  6. darren fitzgerald

    darren fitzgerald 77Century

    What a cool post. I still have my Kenne-bell catalog from the early 90s. Each payday I would order another part(s) for my 455. For some strange reason, my wife thought spending 1000s at one time was ridiculous but was ok with me buying 500 to 800 worth of parts each payday. lol Now that I own a 77 Regal with a 350 it is time to see what I can do with it.
     
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  7. Dano

    Dano Platinum Level Contributor

    Much of this was very consistent with what I experienced on my 350 build in the mid '80's - '90's on my '70 GS 350 Factory M-21 4-sp. "Stripper." Never weighed the car, but was a factory bench seat, no A/C, no PS, manual brake car, so prob. 3500 ish. Had BB alum. front drums & a Lakewood Blowproof bellhousing so the T/A intake & drums prob. about offset the weight of the bellhousing. I'm sure I'm forgetting some minor details here.

    1st iteration in the mid/late 80's on a stock "SP" engine: Headers, 2-1/2" mandrel bent exhaust, T/A intake, KB Mark II cam, 3.73, QJ (not tuned), stock ignition, remove air cleaner. There were steps in that and 3.23 to 3.42 to 3.73 all saw marked improvements. In the end, ran very consistent 14.0-14.1 @ 103-104 MPH with awful 60' times.

    Next iteration all happened together in the mid-90's on a rebuild/body off resto and added to the above mods: Big valve ported heads, KB C118 Cam, Hypereutectic pistons (measured 10.2 comp.), '73 Rods, balanced. Ran 13.0's and still not great 60' times.

    Life took over & never got it dialed in but it was making top end HP to go high 12's on what was really a pretty basic build considering the limited knowledge & parts we had to work with.

    One thing that jumps out @ me as a stark consistency between the 2 builds and as I embark on 2 new 350 builds (one ea. auto & 4-sp) and I don't really understand why except for keeping the rpm's up, is the 4-sp. My car always had it and ran very well even compared some modern builds based on automatics, but the KB car saw a marked improvement going to a 4-sp. even from the switch-pitch. I also saw a recent thread going to an M-20 showing improvements over an M-21. I was considering doing the higher HP build on the auto. with a 200R4/2500-3k Stall and 4.10/4.33/4.56, but am reconsidering building the 4-sp. as the higher HP car.

    A couple things not addressed in the test or on mine were fan (mine had a stock solid 4-blade which is supposedly pretty hp robbing), and 4.10's, which I was going to do next if I hadn't sold it.
     

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