K&P Engineering Oil Filters

Has anyone used the K&P Engineering oil filters in their vehicles? The stock Buick application would be a "S-19" and list for $184. It's similar to a System 1 but more compact and they do list their filtering capabilities on their website…….. http://kandpengineering.com.

Link to the S-19 filter...…… http://kandpengineering.com/product-catalog/s19-2/

I met with them at SEMA and I do believe that I'm going to do a buy in and become a dealer. I was impressed after talking with them and I'm definitely going to use one on my '64 Lark.

Anyone that has any experience with them..... good or bad..... please let me know. I did several searches and found only good info. Anyone wanting to place an order for one please let me know also. I'll get a list going and offer a nice discount off of the $184 MSRP for the first order.




Thanks,
Steve
SRE Performance Fabrications Inc

 

seems like a nice unit, 35 micros with 1.9gpm per sq in seems to not be restrictive at all. when I gave more time I will have to see what they get for one to replace wix 51515r

 

Junk Just like a K&N air filter. No micros. Bling ..... Damb thing don't filter out the smalls.. The Oil gizmo maybe fine for someone that changes their only every 1/4 mile run. If that thing is anything at all its a pre filter..

The thing that most don't understand is a filter (WIX and other quality brands) not Fram...That is brand new is great.. As they get used they filters out the smalls the smalls get caught in the filter and the filter works better than day one.. Also change your filers on a regular basis you don't want to over work them..

 

The WIX 51515R equivalent looks to be one of their LARGE units..... the S41.
http://kandpengineering.com/product-catalog/S41/

Pricier than the $184 S19 at $289 List. I would offer a deal on that one also if interested. System One is also in the $200-$300 range for most of theirs. The S19 application that fits the stock timing cover looks to be a decent filter at a decent cost. ($184 list.....better pricing if I become a dealer)

 

I used wix xp on my cars and boat, but on my race motor I'm more worried about flow than filter. when the filtering gets better the flow gets worse. doesn't make tons of sense in a race motor that lives about 5000 to pay lots of money to increase flow through the block, increase volume of the pump, then to choke it back down with a filter. knowing I'm using great oil, and knowing it get changed a few times a year it's a trade off I'm willing to live with to know at closer to 7000 rpm I have enough flow across the bearings to do its job. Oil with a few particals in the 15-35 micron range is better than a lack of oil with only particals under 15 microns

this is one area a race motor and daily drive does differ. even if you counted driving in pits, return roads, shut down etc, most race motors never see 250 miles to an oil change.......figure thats 250 passes.

no one on a daily driver would change oil ever 250 miles.

would be nice to see a true head to head test of not only micro, flow and how well it filter a specific size micro on its first pass........the efficiency of the filter.........I would guess most filters dont live up to what they are claiming

 

Bens99gtp I totally agree with you.. On oil flow.. a low micron filter will slow down the flow. Thats why you put a K&L hi flow air screen on your race car,, more air. Put the WIX back on for the street. Never put a K&N style screen on a turbo. The turbo will suck the oil off the screen get on the blades and stick to in sides of the intercooler.
What I don't like is the fact the clown selling this oil screen and calls it a filter.. Look at the Application chart he claims the uses this screen (prefilter) is good for.

 

little funny if you have a wix 51515 and 51515r filter they are basically the same size but through them the r is s41 and the non racing filter is s15 but 2 " shorter

 

Wix isn't all its jazzed up to be.

 

I wonder how many people really understand what they are referring to when they say "5 Micron"? To truly filter ALL particles down to 5 micron is all but impossible in an automotive application. I'm well versed in Industrial hydraulic fluids and the ISO cleanliness requirements. Rarely are they TRUELY achieved. The ISO cleanliness standards that are required by industry, (Cat, John Deere, Etc.) are somewhat crazy. I can tell you that the drinking water that you consume every day will NOT pass the ISO standards set fourth for their hydraulic oil and ALL components that go into the system. How many of you have ever done a particle patch test on their oil to check for ISO compliance and cleanliness standards?

We talk about the significance of paper element filters and how efficient they can be...……… I say BS!! Once the paper element gets blocked it goes into bypass mode and you have basically NO FILTERING to speak of. Try running dirty hydraulic oil (or engine oil) through a paper element filter with NO BYPASS and a pressure gauge on both sides of the system. It doesn't take long to see the pressure differential and not too long before the pump is basically dead heading or bursting the paper element if it's a big enough pump.

I'm not saying that these filters are the greatest thing ever produced, but I'd definitely like a little more info on them...………… not just an "opinion" about paper vs SS mesh. SS mesh has been an industry standard for quite a while. This is in reference to BIG expensive equipment, (earth movers, cranes, etc. costing hundreds of thousands of dollars). The auto applications are small in comparison. Plus the paper elements are a product of marketing and convenience. No one doing oil changes for a living will want to take the time to clean a filter vs screwing a new one on. Also if everyone ran a lifetime filter what impact would it have on the oil filter industry? The paper elements work and they have their place, but SS mesh is just as or more effective.

 

Barton Racing Engines uses them...That's gotta be worth some consideration.

 

Steve I dont need one right now with snow on the ground here. my season is over minus a trip to GA the week of Thanksgiving, but that is just to pick up our new car trailer.

so if you become a dealer let me know I will order one, I was going to buy some form of one of these for next season. sure is nice to ever 15 or so passes to check things out, if all good I can even put the oil back in. it's not hard to cut a filter open but at 10 bucks each it starts to add up

 

I'd buy one right now if the information was true. It seems too good to be true, filters better than stock and flows alot more...

 

I'm going to do a little more investigative work. I think I'll get in touch with Barton Racing and have them give me their reasons for using them. It may come down to me actually doing some flow testing and particle analysis testing to see how they compare one on one with other filters. I can do this at work since we build products for the hydraulic industry.

I'll give it a try sometime this winter and let you all know results.

Thanks,
Steve

 

Steve that would be great, not something anyone can do for sure.

the wix 51515r I use is advertised by wix to flow a max of 28gpm and has a nominal micron rating of 61

the regular 51515 is claimed at 7-9gpm with a nominal micron rating of 21

if I can get better filtering down towards the mid 30s in microns and have the same of better flow it's a no brainer.

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=76220

what I haven't seen is it listing how many sq inches of filtering material they have in each filter. they say they are getting 1.9gpm of flow per every sq in of filter at only 1 psi.........wonder if this rate goes up of down with pressure.....wonder if the the pressure would help pushed particles through the filter.

we are currently seeing well over 100 psi of pressure at the outlet side of my filter housing at 3000 rpms and high on 160* oil temp of brad penn 20w50. going to work on bringing it down some for next year.

1000 rpm idle with fully warm oil is still over 60 psi

 

I would appreciate this very much Steve and I am sure if the result is as good as promised then many will buy this filter.

Many people here use the WIX 51258 flows 9-11gpm with a nominal micron rating of 21.
Ben whats your setup? What pressure do you have on the mains with 60 PSI at the outlet side of your filter?

 

I have no way to measure that. my remote mount filter used the normal pressure port as an inlet for the motor. when I have the motor out to reseal the pan I might try to plumb a tube at the rear where most put the balance line into the rear to put pressure at the back of the motor. this would let me see the pressure going to last main.

our motor is running a scavenger setup and has an incredible amount of pressure.

I had the oil heater on for a few hrs b4 putting antifreeze in for the winter, started it u to bring the motor to temp and mix it throughout the motor. oil temp was just under 140, 900ished rpm idle had 75 psi.

small video of motor at idle not warmed up, the barges are not clear to see in the darkness, oil pressure on right, water temp on left

 

Ben why not run 10W-30 instead of 20W-50?

 

builder said to run brad penn 20w50. I'm sure bobb knows his stuff and had a reason for say very specifically tao run it. I can ask him though

 

There's more to the micron rating of a filter. You have to look for "nominal" and "absolute". Most micron ratings posted are nominal, because they can advertise a smaller number and it looks good for marketing (much like how they used to do with computer processor speeds, and features on TV's). It's also a little more realistic. Absolute means it filters out all particles down to that micron level (nothing larger will pass through), nominal means most of the particles that it filters will be that size (generally 95%. So a filters nominal micron rating will be a little lower than it's absolute rating.

If you really want to understand the filtering characteristics of a filter, you need to find the "beta ratio" info for the filter. Most manufacturers wont post this info, because you'll see the filter isn't as good as you would think (their marketing). An example would be an oil filter for a duramax, WIX 57202, it is rated as a 21 micron filter. It has a beta ratio of 2/20=6/20, which means it has an efficiency of filtering 50% @ 6 microns (Bx of 2), and 95% @ 20 microns (Bx of 20). The 2 in the first group corresponds to the 6 in the second group, and the 20 in the first group corresponds to the 20 in the second group. So the first group to the left of the = is the beta ratio and the group after the = is the micron rating.