Is anybody actually interested in a serpentine setup?

Before I finish the CAD drawings and get prototypes, how many people are actually SERIOUSLY interested in a serpentine setup?

So far I've only modeled non A/C sizes, since I don't have an A/C car to use for mock up. I thought about doing an underdriven (smaller) crank pulley, however it seemed from Erik's pulley thread that most people would prefer the stock sizes. Again, let me know.

I'd be only be providing the water pump and crank pulleys, since aftermarket pulleys are readily available for the alternator & power steering pump.

The pulleys will be machined from 6061-T6 aluminum. Not sure about a coating yet, they'll either be raw or be powder coated clear. Cost should be right around $350 for the set, possibly less.

As far as a timeline, if I get enough interest, I'm hoiping to order the prototypes by late next week. Then providing no changes are needed, pulleys should be available by late March early April. Here's a quick pic of the water pump pulley in the CAD program...



Let me hear your thoughts guys. The more input the better! Thanks, and hope everybody had a Happy Holidays :beer !

 

I'm a Ford guy that recently got into Nailheads. Fortunately, I have some March serpentine pulleys around for my Ford 351W. The waterpump pulley from the 351W fits the Nailhead perfectly. The alternator can, with some fabrication, be located to work with the water pump pulley. So that leaves me with the crank pulley which I am looking to get machined. The March pulley for the crank has two problems - bolt circle of the nailhead interferes with the bolt circle from the Ford and depth of the crank pulley of the Ford is way deeper than what I need so it would have to be shortened. Anyways, I look forward to any future posts on this because it would be a great mod for the Nailhead.

PS. I'm also an old ProE guy. Not sure if you designed it in SolidWorks, Inventor or ProE but its nice to see a 3D model again...

-modeladave

 

I actually looked at kits available for the SB/BB Ford first, since I had been told both had been modified to fit a 'Nail. I came to the same conclusion as you; the water pump pulley should work, however the crank pulley wasn't even close.

Could you do me a huge favor? Could you measure the distance between serpentine grooves, as in the distance (width) from the end of the last groove to the beginning of the first groove (see attached pic)? It would be nice to compare my data to March's.

 

me but would need ac

 

Andy,

Have you figured the layout for the tensioner placement? I assume all stock placement of the accessories and the factory brackets are used. When I looked at this, it needs one (or more) iddler pulley to keep the wraps right.

Anybody have any good leads on the serpentine P/S and alt pulleys to match up with these? I hope this all pans out. This ought to be another GREAT addition for the nail!

I've already got the v-belt A/C pulleys already drawn in Autocad and ready to order the aluminum and start making chips. I've got Inventor, but I'm just too stubborn to learn it. Lol!

Erik

 

My hot rod buddy put a serpentine setup on his nail. I believe he used a grand National crank pulley, but he did mention something about Ford parts.

 

I haden't planned on using tensioners. I should have included this info in the original post. Basically, the setup will be similar to the factory v-belt configuration, with 2 belts driving the accesories (since I haven't yet planned an A/C configuration), except it will use serpentine belts instead. I looked through a lot of kits that are offered, and this setup is the easiest and most cost effective. A full blown serpentine setup (one belt driving everything) would be substantially more complicated, and thus more expensive to make. And yes, stock accessory location and brackets. Here's a pic of the general configuration, picture this on both sides of the motor (one belt for the alternator, and one belt for the power steering pump, not sure how I'd go about an A/C setup at this time);



I'm also in the process of finding the best suited aftermarket pulleys for the alternator/power steering pump. There's alot out there so it shouldn't be too difficult.

A lot of people have said there were ways to do it, but no one seemed to definitively know what was used and how it was modified. I'd be tap dancing down jacka$$ alley if I just kept trying off the shelf part combos.

 

Ok guys, I was hoping for a little more interest and a little more input than this. I've got one guy saying "yea" but I'd need A/C sizes, and I've got one guy saying it "should" be a great addition.

I need more than two people interested before I continue, LOL :laugh: !

Please guys, if this is ever going to become a reality, I NEED to get some input and feedback. I don't care if it's positive or negative, any feedback is feedback. Whether you want a set or not, post up and give your opinion on my design and setup, and your level of interest. Thanks :beer !

 

Andy, I was away for a bit - sorry it took a while to get back to you. When I had the serpentine setup on my Ford, I ran it just like you're planning for the nailhead - no tensioner and only one belt. It worked great. I only had the crank, alternator and waterpump on the system. Soooo, I can't get the measurement you're after because my crank pulley is only for a single belt. I'd be careful about the backspacing you use between the crank and the waterpump because I've learned that the nailhead has 2 different waterpumps, so alignment could be off. Its really important with serpentine to get the alignment right on. V Belts seems to have more give that way. If you're going to machine these up, count me in for a crank pulley. Even if you want to use mine as a prototype. Either you do it, or I'll get it done locally. I'd rather support a nailhead brotha...

Dave

 

Thanks for the info, and no problem about that measurment.

I realize the 'Nail has two different water pumps, I believe '61 and earlier used the longer style pump. I've yet to see that style on a '62 or later motor.

I'll keep in mine your interest. I'll let you know as things progress whether I'll be making the pulleys or not. At this point it's a no go. I'm not going to shell out the cash for prototypes or a run of 20-30 units with the response I've gotten so far.

I'm going to shoot you a PM.

I know Air Ride used Ford pulleys. However, nobody can give me a straight answer as to whether they were small block or big block pulleys. Plus, a kit from March is kinda expensive compared to about $350 for a set of pullies. Plus, with the March kit, new mounting brakets for the accesories will have to be fabbed, which will again add to the cost.

Guys, at this point it's a no go. Unless people start speaking up, this project will die just as quick as it's come about. Speak now, or forever hold your peace.

 

Sorry to hear there isn't much interest. Personally, I'm content with the stock ones.
You might get a better response from hot rodder guys....have you posted over at the HAMB boards?

 

Thanks for the suggestion Walt, I've been over there once or twice but I've never posted. I'll get 'er a shot.

I guess I'm just a little disappointed - I thought from my first thread regarding manufacturing parts that there was more interest than this. Serpentine pulleys were the most suggested things in that thread.

 

Ive been following and think its a great idea. I just didnt want to chime in without being able to commit. Having been downsized and what not. Would have liked to be more supportive of your idea.
And those guys over on the H.A.M.B love Nailheads too!

 

Thank you :TU: !

Regardless of being able to commit or not, I need to know the interest exists. Although you can't buy a set right now, you at least want to. Having the demand for a product is half the battle, being able to move it is the other.

 

IMO a serpentine configuration means ONE belt driving all applicable accessories; ie alternator, water pump, power steering pump, etc. That's where the word "serpentine" comes from - a belt going every which way. From what I see from the discussion and pic is that the only real difference from stock and your setup is the TYPE of belt being used. I guess I don't understand the advantage of your proposed system over a stock setup. o No: BTW, I'm not really interested in purchasing one anyhow.

 

I'll go along with Jim. If one belt with a tensioner can drive everything (including PS and AC) I'm very interested. Anything less then that is simply changing the type of belt and I don't really see the advantage.

 

A true serpentine setup can be done, however it will significantly more expensive since the pulleys will need to be manufactured, as well as bracketry for the accessories and tensioners. Instead of having a shiney new pulley set w/serpentine belts for about $400, I wouldn't be surprised if the true serpentine kit cost close to $1k. It certainly wouldn't be the affordable kit everybody said they wanted in my original thread.

Also, the point of the kit/pulleys isn't only to change the belt type. A set of nice aluminum pulleys looks a helluva lot better than steel stockers.

 

The significant advantage of a serpentine system lies in it's use of idler pulleys. They allow lower belt tension, so accessory bearings last longer and belt life is dramatically increased. That's why the serpentine system was developed. (It's probably cheaper somehow too).

 

i agree id want one belt

it could be black and steel as for all i care as long as it works

 

I would agree that it would be a big project to go to a true serpentine setup. The power steering pulley is on a different plane then everything else. Whether the PS pump could be moved rearward is problematic to the extent that at the least it would require new brackets. I can see why the setup complete could cost a grand. If done right, it might be worth it. I do like the look of the aluminum pulleys, but mine are chromed and look pretty good too.
At a minimum, the serpentine system would require 5 pulleys (crankshaft, water pump, alternator, A/C compressor, p.s. pump), a tensioner, and a PS bracket. I think the A/C pulley would have to be steel due to the magnetic clutch.
If you could do this as a "cottage industry" in your basement or garage shop, it might be possible to make the serpentine setup profitably. As a production item, although there are a lot of nailhead lovers out there, I doubt that there are enough who would pay a fair price for the setup to justify it's production. I am probably one of the few who might.