intake valves

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by gsgtx, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    is a heavy intake valve with a weight of 144 grams for a nailhead better then a stock intake valve of 109 grams. will the heavy one be easier on the valve springs and rev faster and higher?
     
  2. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    The lighter valve will be easier on the spring, and be able to rev higher.
    A tulip'ed valve seems to work a bit better with the port/chamber shape, but some have really done well with an sbc valve.
    I suspect yours are one of those... :)
     
  3. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Are they both the same size valve? That's a lot of grams. My guess is the lighter valve will be better on the valve train and rev slightly faster and higher...I am with f85 on this one
     
  4. Starc Traxler

    Starc Traxler Well-Known Member

    Lighter is better, that's why the manufacturers make titanium valves and retainers
     
  5. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    I just don,t get it. the 144 gram valves are the ones from Russ Martin. why would he sell them when there are 109 gram valves that you can buy out there. that is 1/3 more weight. would anyone like to buy them for 1/2 price before i throw them in the trash ? or maybe i can find some over weight, .050 in the hole cast pistons to go a long with the valves.
     
  6. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    I think he sells them because they fit the needs of 99% of Nailhead builds.
    I know that he gets involved with some fairly serious builds, but I can't imagine that it would be necessary to push a valve that vastly exceeded the inherent limitations of the heads' capability themselves.

    Your statement is the same as saying "Why doesn't the BBC store only sell 300M billet cranks that can handle 4000hp? If I can't have the best then I shall toss this Eagle forged crank away!!"

    [Most nails run out of air long before valvetrain is an issue. The stock valves have a very light spring you can open with your thumb. It doesn't take much more spring to hold a heavier valve, esp. with a low revver like a nail.]
     
  7. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    So what kind of a Nailhead build are you doing that it needs to rev higher? Seems like that valve wouldn't be the problem with how the typical Nailhead runs out of air before that would slow it down.


    What kind of build are you planning on doing this time, a destroker Nailhead?(your Nailhead stroker is awesome by the way) In that instance I could see the extra weight slowing the RPMs down. A destroker 425 with its bigger bore would be sweet with a 3.25" stroke, should be able to make that spin! Would be with a .030" overbore 385 cid, with well ported heads should be able to get that cubic inch displacement over 6,000 RPM, even better with a destroked 401! A .030" over 401 with a 3.25" destroked crank would be a 364 that would be able to rev even more within the confines of the Nailhead's heads anemic air flow that is available even with heavily ported heads.

    The use of Nisan 6.495" rods with the 1.850" bore with bearings installed would work for this kind of build, even the other way would work as well. They come with a 2.086" bearing installed diameter as well if the .390" over or under stroke is to much but cubic inches would be bigger. Would need pistons with the same wristpin as the mentioned rods as well as having the rods narrowed .006", from .973" to the Nailhead's rod's width of .967" IIRC.

    Or better yet, use a 264 Nailhead crank in a 425 or a 401 with BBC rods narrowed from .990" to .967"(a mere .027" off of the non-chamfered side) with the 3.203 stroke of the 264 destroked even further to a 3.160" stroke. The 401 would make a 353 with it bored .030" over and a .030" over 425 block would be a 374 destroker Nailhead! For even less cubes, the above mentioned Nissan rods would get the job done.

    Fun stuff, so what cha building that you need more RPM than a Nailhead can spin anyway, with or without lighter valves?





    Derek
     
  8. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention that there is a guy here in Michigan that will machine the nascar take out titanium valves down to the length and diameter of your choice if you are really serious in having light valves. I believe he charges $100 a set to do them, not sure if that includes both in. and ex. valves as one set or if that would be per set of intake valves and per set of exhaust valves though?

    I have bought a couple of those nascar take out titanium valves and after they're cleaned up they look like new for under $100 I have seen a lot of them go for. IIRC I think I bought the sets I have for under $50 for a set of eight in. valves and the same for a set of eight ex. valves.

    You can get the used titanium nascar take out retainers as well for next to nothing as well as titanium locks. Combine that with a set of beehive springs and now you're ready to rev the snot out of your destroker Nailhead build!

    If you're interested in the guy that machines the valves down let me know and I'll see if I can find his info for you. :beers2:




    Derek
     
  9. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    yes light spring with a light valve. not a heavy valve. why go backwards when re doing any engine, same cost for parts and labor but have at least as good as factory if not better. why buy a half a loaf of bread, when for the same price you can get a whole loaf.:grin:
     
  10. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    am doing a 401 now. its in 1965 gs . the engine was rebuilt but had no power it was a disgrace to the nailhead. so i pulled it out. i have all the paper work on the old rebuilt.
     
  11. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Sorry to hear, are you going to do a build thread? Would love to read about what didn't work and what you're going to change.







    Derek
     
  12. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    it was honed and new rings never bored out.had ported heads ,123 cc chamber with the heavy valves. ta-112 cam degree in. nice ta- single roller chain that didnt stretch.pistons 45-55 thousand in the hole dependent on what side of the block you measure. that is as far as i got. new cam bearing but never any mention on sizing the bearing to the cam journals thinking the cam might be tight, didnt pull the chain off yet. oh yea they put a 60 lb oil spring in that has to be thrown out.
     
  13. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    No surprise that a stock spec cam but with so much less overlap would be down on power, besides the other common afflictions to poorly rebuilt engines.
     
  14. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    that is true.
     
  15. John Codman

    John Codman Platinum Level Contributor

    Although it is possible to get a Nailhead to rev to a stupid number of RPMs, the engine won't develop any power up there without a kompressor, so who really cares what the valves weigh? I would agree that a reasonable engine builder - all factors being equal - would probably choose the lighter valves, but If I wanted an engine that was more of a horsepower engine then a torquer, I wouldn't choose a Nailhead. As I have commented elsewhere on this forum, the Diesel in my pickup didn't have enough torque. The Nailhead does. I'll be surprised if it ever sees 5,000 rpm as long as I own it. It will pull stumps. Very well. :grin:
     
  16. dual-quadism

    dual-quadism Black on Black

    One thing to look at is the face of th valve. Originals were concave, I have seen aftermarket concave and flat. That is a big difference in weight. Has to be somewhere obvious. Compression difference might be worth it, hp wise. FYI, Russ stuff is relabeled TA stuff.
     
  17. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Are you referring to 'tulip' valve head profiles?
    Those tend to work better with nailhead ports and chambers.
     
  18. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    Those are stock, correct?
    Are there good aftermarket versions avail?
     
  19. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    OK you got me, I got curious so I looked up the guy that machines the titanium valves and here is what he wrote on his eBay auction with his phone number included;



    "Yes, you can have your valves and retainers machined here. All brands. All sizes.... Are you building a custom engine that needs some special valve sizes?..... Have your valves or our valves machined to your own specifications..... This particular auction is for 1 set of 8 Del West reconditioned titanium intake valves in mint condition. 2.125 x 11/32 x 5.280 with a .290 tip length. This set shown here is only $200.00 That is only $25.00 each..... Are your valves worn out?..... No margin left?.... Ratty looking?..... JARVIS PERFORMANCE will even re-machine YOUR OWN valves and retainers to YOUR OWN specifications ........ Head diameters turned ........ Lengths shortened ...... New keeper grooves cut and hard tips installed ...... Custom back angles for high flow and nice thick margins..... Don't get rid of your old titanium valves just because they are dirty and the valve seats are worn ....... How much did you pay for those valves new?..... Make your old valves look like new at a fraction of the cost.... Don't trust other people with your expensive valves and retainers ...... Jarvis has special equipment just for machining titanium valves.... It,s cheaper than you think.......... You will probably save at least $1,000.00..... Take a good look at these pictures...... All surfaces on these valves are completely re-machined ... There are no bent, beat up or ratty looking valves here .... What you see is what you get ..... Look at these before and after pictures ..... You can not break these valves with a hammer .... Just look at the pic of the beat up valves, they did not break after the pistons hit them countless times.... Titanium valves are very light and very strong.... These are available in many custom lengths and diameters.... Exhaust valves are also available in any diameter you need that is 1.600 or smaller .... Also available in many custom lengths..... Chevy .... Ford ... Mopar ... Vw .... Harley Davidson ... Even Lamborghini... You name it ... These valves cost at least $100.00 each new .. These reconditioned valves start here at only $25.00 each ..... That is well over 60% off....... Because these valves are 40% lighter than steel, your valves will not bounce on the valves seats and your lifters will not fly off the cam lobes so you can run lighter valve springs and free up even more horsepower .....Keep in mind that at 8,000 RPM, your valves are opening and closing 66 times per second!

    ... These valves run 20,000 RPM in formula one ..... All valves have strong 11/32 stems and hardened steel tips .......... Jarvis Performance also has Del West titanium spring retainers for dual springs in 7 and 10 degrees for only $100.00 for complete sets of 16 .... These retainers cost well over $200.00 a set new ... This is also well over half off and this is also the best deal on the internet ...............Call Jarvis Custom machining ...... Common question......are my valves long enough to be shortened ? Measure the over all length of the valve without the keeper groove as shown in the last pic.......That is as long as that valve can be. Add .100 to that if you are using hard tips. Obviously the valve can be any length shorter than that and the tip length can be any length. ....We also have 6 and 7 and 8 mm titanium valves for many other applications...... BMW , Toyota Supra, Lamborghini and more.... Keep in mind, you can NOT shorten and re-groove hollow stem valves!.... When ordering, always specify stem diameter, head diameter over all length, tip length and square groove or bead lock.... Check out my other auctions ....JARVIS PERFORMANCE.COM ... HIGH PERFORMANCE CUSTOM MACHINING ... Home of the 9 second Chevy Van .... For more on the van.....check out the videos on YOU TUBE under Jarvis Pass Time ..... You can order these valves and retainers any time at 734-721-8249...... Please, serious people only ... Ask for Dave...... Thanks for looking and good luck."



    Here are some links to his auctions;

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-va...650277?hash=item1c764a12e5:g:EykAAOSw65FXqJOs

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Ra...650392?hash=item1c764a1358:g:G2sAAOSwMVdYEezO

    Here is a list of used titanium valves on evilbay if you were wondering;

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ndition=4&_nkw=nascar+titanium+valves&_sop=15

    I think his auctions are to buy valves that he machined already with the info to contact him. So pricing to do your valves may be less than buying the ones in the auction? If not maybe buy them directly from him?

    He is also the owner of the 9 second van! LOL It looks like his prices may have gone up? Or that is the price when he supplies the valves? Anyway, if you want lightweight valves then you can't get much lighter than titanium. GL







    Derek
     
  20. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    good thread,,,,,my understanding is a lighter valve train wont give you more HP but lets you rev a little faster and stays more stable at where I like to rev to say around 5500 to 6000 rpm.I do remember reading old articles that buick liked there valve train because of it being so light. Guess it also depends on what you like to do with your buick , a nice sunday ride through the park or like me a nice sunday ride through the park and on the way home take the back roads and run it like I stole it. Derek, them valves are really interesting. I have been thinking about something like that for my next set of heads. I don't know how high you have to rev a engine to take advantage of lighter valve train. Does any one really know?I have been using the 11/32 valve for a long time now.
     

Share This Page