Ignition wire.

Discussion in 'Sparky's corner' started by hvramesq, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. hvramesq

    hvramesq Silver Level contributor

    Took my 70gs455 to mechanic to have electronic ignition installed, adjust timing, carb settings etc. He tells me that the distributor wire was brittle and breaking. this is the wire that would connect to the electronic ignition. He replaced it. However, apparrently now the car wont start as usual with the key crank and it appears no juice is getting to the coil. I am a confused as to his explanation of why this is as the car started fine before. When I got there he had a small wire connecting the alternator to the pos coil post. He showed me how this made the engine start quickly-almost at that turn of the key with hardly no cranking. He asked if I was having trouble with start up. I told him usually the car has been sitting for days or weeks so I would have to crank a few times to get gas to carb and then it would fire right up. He thought it might be an issue unrelated to a dry carb. He wanted me to leave the car so he could figure out the issue but I needed to take it back. so I asked him will the car start as it normally did and he said yes. so I did take the car and I drove home just fine and then pulled for gas and shut engine. I could not get it to start again. I had to call my wife to bring me a jumper cable and remote starter. Using jumper cables, I connected positive battery to positive coil and could not get car to start. tried cranking 2-3X for approx. 5 seconds each time. instead I connected remote starter to back of alternator and coil and on the second cranking try, car started up and I drove home and into garage. I did not bother trying to restart car. Anybody have an idea what is going on? When I connect coil to battery or alternator, is there a period I need to wait to energize the coil or something. I want to resolve the problem correctly and permanently. but in the interim I want to use the car. I am writing to the mechanic requesting a clear explanation and will update post. attached is the response I got from mechanic. I am following up to find out what happened to my original "I" to "+"

    hvramesq

    ignition.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  2. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The "R" terminal supplies battery voltage only while the starter is cranking. He calls it the I terminal. With electronic ignition, you don't need that. All you need to do is run a 14 gauge wire from the firewall connector to the + side of the coil. It will be live during crank and run. You will need to open up the engine harness and trace that wire back from the coil + to the firewall to find out why it is going dead. Maybe a PO screwed up the wiring. I have seen everything.
     
  4. hvramesq

    hvramesq Silver Level contributor

    sorry, whats a PO? and thanks for the response and link to prior post--very helpful!!
     
  5. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    PO = Previous Owner:)
     
  6. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    What sort of electronic ignition did you have installed? GM HEI or a points elimination kit?
     
  7. hvramesq

    hvramesq Silver Level contributor

    lectric breakerless
     
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    From the lectric Ltd site,

    https://www.lectriclimited.com/conversions-modifications/

    Do I need to remove the ballast resistor or resistance wire from my vehicle when installing the Breakerless-SE™? Because the Breakerless-SE was designed for original or restored-to-original vehicles, you MUST use a ballast resistor (if your vehicle was originally equipped with one), or resistance wire (if your vehicle originally has this wire built into your dash harness or engine harness). Do NOT remove your ballast resistor, or remove the resistance wire. This will eventually damage the Breakerless-SE™ module and void your warranty.

    If you replace the resistance wire, you need to use a ballast resistor.
     
  9. hvramesq

    hvramesq Silver Level contributor

    followed up with mechanic who said my car had no ballast resistor. Could this be what you described as PO screw up. Is it possible that my car was running with points dist. and MSD blaster with no ballast resistor? Again, before conversion to electric ignition, car would take some cranking to start but not an excessive amount. I assumed it was due to limited use and hot Florida weather. Car could sit untouched for weeks, sad to say. When used and hot engine, started up rather quickly.
     
  10. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    GM cars use a resistor wire. It performs the same function as a ballast resistor. I describe the system in that thread I linked you to. If you run constant battery voltage to points, they will have a decreased life. The same is true of your electronic ignition conversion. I have no way of knowing what your mechanic did, but if you are powering the coil without resistance, you may burn out the Lectric Ltd. breakerless.
     
  11. Birdawg68

    Birdawg68 Silver Level contributor

    I am reading this, and have a simialer issue. I installed a pertronix flame thrower III. I read the instructions and installed it. A bad ground gave me fits for awhile, until i took out the battery, and discovered the loose connection. When I installed the flame thrower III, I was replacing a flamethrower II that was getting aged. When I read about removing the resistance wire, I figured it was already done, since I had the flame thrower II. Car runs well under relaxed driving conditions. Mash the gas and it stutters, and will only catch up after getting off the gas. Checked my tune up and have 20 (bars, atmospheres, whatever the measurement is) of vacuum at idle, nice and smooth, idle at about 625 in neutral. Remembering the ground problem causing me issues, I'm thinking electrical. Dusted off the computer, got out the Buick cd's for my 68 skylark, and found that the original resistance wire is pink. Look at my coil wire, its pink. Looks like the original. Get out the pertronix Flame thrower II instructions, realize it does not require the removal of the resistance wire. The flame thrower III requires 10-12 volts, my current set up is putting out 5.5. Problem solved. The answer I found is replace the wire with 12 gauge wire at the fuse block. So Now for my question. If I run the new wire back to the firewall, where i believe there is a plug, can I just run it from there, or do I need to replace it all the way to the fuse block? Also, anyone know where I can get pink 12 gauge wire fairly quickly? Thanks in advance for any help.
     
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  12. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    All of that is explained in the link I previously posted, it here it is again.

    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?th...ystem-function-tests-and-modification.248990/
     
  14. Birdawg68

    Birdawg68 Silver Level contributor

    Yep, the instructions in that link make it crystal clear. Thanks for taking the time to repost that link, since I didn't follow it the first time you posted it. Hope you have a great weekend!
     
  15. Birdawg68

    Birdawg68 Silver Level contributor

    Followed Larry's instructions and her is where I am at:
    After running the ignition wire I checked to voltage to the wire in the run position, 12 volts. Car cranks but will not start. Voltage drops to 8 Volts while cranking. Since it saarted with the 5.5 volts it had previously, I am stumped.
    I rehooked up the wire from the starter, along with the ignition wire. Vehicle starts, idles good, but when I accelerate, the gen light comes on, and it will not accelerate under load. The higher I rev it, the brighter the light gets. I took the primary ignition wire off, just left the one from the starter, and the vehicle starts but will not accelerate. I started the vehicle again with both wires hooked up, and checked voltage at the battery. It was fluctuating any where from 11 to 12.5 volts. I checked it at the coil and had the same result.
    So, in my mind, the alternator is bad. But two questions I have: The wire from the starter has 12 volts all the time, but I thought it went flat when the car started and the key was in the run position. Am I mistaken? 2. Since the car will not start with just 12 volt to it, as the voltage drops while cranking, could it actually be am amperage issue? I did hook the battery straight to the coil, and it would not start. The battery is 8 years old, but I took it to autozone and O'reillys and it tests good. I'm considering putting a 63 amp alternator on it. Just checking to see if any of you may have had a similar issue, or if I'm just doing something wrong.
     
  16. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    First, the starter is a big load on the battery. It is normal for the voltage to drop while cranking. 8 volts seems low, normally it drops to 9-10 volts if the battery is fully charged and in good shape. It sounds like you somehow fried the alternator. Did you separate the firewall connector? Did you disconnect the battery before doing so?

    I don't understand why the car won't start if you replaced correctly, or why it won't start if you hook the coil directly to the battery. The starter solenoid only supplies 12 volts while cranking.

    I'm not a big fan of Pertronix but some use them successfully.
     
  17. BuickV8Mike

    BuickV8Mike SD Buick Fan

    Reminds me of my Pertronix issues before I went back to points. If it won't start with coil + directly from the battery something going on! This should take both the alt and voltage regulator out of the equation I would think.
     
  18. Birdawg68

    Birdawg68 Silver Level contributor


    I did disconnect the battery. Looking back, the alternator may have been going bad for awhile, it used to squeal when started and I drove at night at one time and the lights dimmed at idle. The battery is 8 years old, so, that's always questionable to me. It may test fine, but not be all that good. I have decided after work I am going to hook jumper cables up to the car and try running straight from the battery with the cables hooked up.
     

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