Hugger (Ethan Mathis ) not a man of his word

During the summer I answered an ad from Ethan about a complete BBB 4 speed set up , everything needed to do a complete conversion. We spoke a couple times and being it was 1) advertised as is and 2) I could not personally inspect it I made it a point on 2 separate occasions to ask what shape everything was in on one occasion everything was in very good shape I should have no problem using any of it , except the shifter . On a different conversion I was told everything was really nice and could probably do the conversion in 1 weekend . Based on the information I was given I made an offer ( less than was advertised for ) that included delivery to Bowling Green . I paid for the parts in advance as I would not be going to BG . A friend picked up the parts and delivered them to me. At first inspection I was a little disappointed at the condition of everything but everyone's idea of "good shape" is different so I didn"t complain . Instead of doing the conversion I spent the next few weekends sanding and painting parts . It was at this time I noticed the clutch fork was bent and the spring clip that holds it in place was broken. Not my idea of " good shape " but I can repair it so again I didn't complain .
Finally sometime in Dec the remainder of the parts arrived ( he had forgotten to bring some to BG )
With everything here I could finally move forward on my project . I sent the trans out for a quick looking over and was informed it needed a complete rebuild . The trans guy ( whom I completely trust ) told me it looked as if it was filled with water at one time. Cost to repair $800 . At this point I decided to complain . After numerous PM's I finally got hold of Ethan on the phone . We talked about the situation , I offered to put him in touch with the trans guy( he said not necessary) At this point HE OFFERED TO REFUND ME $500 I thought this was very nice of him, All he asked was to give him a couple of weeks and PM him my address. I hung up with a good feeling of the situation and proceeded to send him my address. Two weeks goes by ...........nothing. I send my address again a couple more weeks goes by.............nothing . I place numerous calls to him again no response Finally after a few months he responds to a PM .Tells me those were his father parts ( whom I never spoke to) and he had no right to offer a refund, but his father would like to speak to me and would call the next day . Well I still have never spoken to his father but after numerous calls Ethan responded to a pm and stated the parts were advertised " as is", I paid less than asking price, and they delivered them so there will be no refund . So that brings me to here
Thanks Bob Buick

 

http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/tough-first-year.321459/#post-2682910

 

Sad to see this in The Buick Community !!

 

1.AS IS

2.45 yr old Used parts, advertised as such

3. Sold and delivered the following for $2000
M21 trans,bellhousing, Zbar,ball stud,frambracket,clutch fork,pedals,switch and harness, shifter,5335 handle,driveshaft, steering column,back shift linkage, flywheel,inspection cover

4. You had the trans rebuilt before contacting me about its issues

5.who doesn't expect to freshen up an unopened 45yrold Muncie?

6. It was made PERFECTLY clear it was a parts car that had been sitting since the 80's. IE non operable therefore I couldn't very well drive it

7.I offered to have the trans inspected locally,.. you declined

8.I made it clear in the ad the parts need restoration as I offered to do so for additional $

9.I took less than asking $

10. I said the trans spun fine by the input and output shaft and the levers clicked in all positions,..which they did

11.you ended up with let's say $3k or $3500 even in a 4speed swap with a fresh trans. Seems perfectly reasonable to me some would even say ahead of the game

12.yea I did say I would give $500 back but I came to my senses and decided not to be run over to keep peace like I so often do. And trust me you wouldn't have liked my Dad's response so yea I left him out of it

13. Sometimes I guess I do take my abilities for granted and what I see as "fine" or "no problem" may be veiwed as catastrophic to a lesser skilled person. Ive just been around so many cars and projects I just roll with the little stuff that gets others out of shape I guess.

I guess there will be two points of views on this
1. I'm a deplorable liar who ripped you off
Or
2.you wanted a detailed out ready to run 4speed swap for $2k no matter if it was described differently or not

My reputation speaks for itself both here and in the Buick community in general.

This will be my only response , the jury of our peers can decide

Only one man can be perfect and I am not him..

 

I can't make judgement on this issue since I was not involved. But I can say I've had dealings with Ethan as both a buyer and seller and everything has been on the up and up and honest. Would absolutely work with him in the future.
gary

 

X2

Like Gary I can't comment on the issue.. However in past dealings I bought an entire bucket seat conversion and everything was as described and we both knew going in that all parts needed refurbished. Heck he even went out of his way to deliver to my house. Would not hesitate to buy from again.

 

Me too! I can not make a judgement on this particular issue. But, I have bought many parts from Ethan, he has been more than helpful and fair in making sure I got the correct parts for my restoration. I would not hesitate to buy parts from him again, and plan to do exactly that!

Doug

 

As I see it the reasons for disappointment are:

1. Had to sand and paint parts.
2. Trans guy said trans needed rebuild.
3. Clutch fork bent, clip broke

My take:

1. Used parts need to be sanded and painted. Should have known that going in.

2. Dont know trans guy so cant take his word for it that trans needed rebuild. Do you have pictures of said trans as proof, or did you just take trans guys word for it?

3. Clutch fork could have been damage after your friend got it for delivery to you. I kept these parts in the back of my truck for Ethan till your buddy got them. I dont remember any damage to the clutch fork. Looked like a nice package to me and as advertised. I looked the stuff over because I thought about buying it too.

I do know Ethan and his old man. Both have always been stand up and honest with me.

 

I must agree with the rest about "dealings" with Ethan. The transactions we've had have been good with no issues what so ever. Sounds like the communication could have been better? Old parts are just that.....old parts. At least that's how I look at items that are not "rebuilt" or "refurbished".

 

I bought a car of ethan. it was a smooth transaction. we hung out for an hour or so. I talked with his father for awhile as well. both were good guys. the car was well represented for what it was. between the two of them they had a huge collection of parts and cars.

If the trans was on the shelf for 30 yrs i would expect it to look rusty on the inside. condensation soaks everything....

 

The only thing that bothers me here is that the $500 refund was offered and agreed to by both parties. Justified or not (I can't say), the refund offer was made.

 

1 Was never told car sat since the 80's
2 A total rebuild is not the same as a freshen up
3YOU OFFERED THE REFUND I stand by my statement NOT A MAN OF HIS WORD !

 

Not taking any sides,but I too have sold some rare 4-speeds. I have not sold any as rebuilt,but I am certain that anyone taking apart a 30-40 year old trans would say that they could use synchros,seals,etc...something I could do for next to nothing a shop may want $1000 to do. The price seems very fair to me for the parts described,but obviously a glitche in communication. In the future,I think I will allow the buyer to inspect the trans and definitelely state as-is. I would also allow the option for a rebuild(price would reflect)....a new aftermarket 4-speed costs more than the total cost we are talking here and we need to be realistic on used vs. new. I can appreciate the post from both sides and maybe as a seller or buyer we need to be more clear.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight but a quick search turned up rebuild kits ranging anywhere from just over $100 to $300. The $300 kit has everything.
Overhual Kit includes:

• synchronizer rings,
• USA made SKF max load front bearing,
• USA made SKF max load rear bearing,
• side cover seals,
• synchronizer keys,
• synchronizer springs,
• gaskets,
• rear seal,
• rear bushing,
• front retaining nut,
• oil slinger,
• small parts kit
• french locks
• reverse lever taper pin.
• heavy duty front bearing upgrade kit. USA made SKF Max load bearing.
• Front bearing Retainer
• Pair of shift forks
• Pair of sliders, standard or torque lock
• Cluster / Countershaft pin

I also found a new complete gear set for $484.
Were any gears replaced?
I've seen my dad rebuild these since I was a kid (51 now) and he's never had to replace everything. I bought a g body 4 speed conversion and had to rebuild the z bar, resize all holes and build up all linkage pivot points. Already had a good 4 speed. That stuff was only 25 yrs old. I think you got a good deal on your parts. Maybe your expectations were a little high. Just my opinion.

 

muncies are very cheap to rebuild until you start replacing gears and sliders.

keep in mind the trans builder has to stand by his work. any part that isn't close to 100 % probably got tossed.

 

That's the sad part about business these days. If it isn't perfect throw it away. Like I said my dad has done this for years for a fair price. I have worked at several shops and the norm was to charge list plus 30%. I just wanted to see what had been done to his transmission. The kit shown has all the parts needed to do a rebuild except gears, main case and tail housing.

 

Bob, what is your idea of a freshen up on a muncie. I'm not picking sides here either, but thus maybe where the issue comes. To me a freshen up would be replacing the wearable iteams. On a muncie to me that would be the brass blockers in the syncros, the bearings, the gaskets and seals. To some that's a full rebuild. To me a rebuild would include needed hard parts like sliders, gears, etc.

Muncie are really not hard to do, worst part I recall was the crazy pressure to press the front bearing off, next worEST was keeping both double rows of needle bearing in place on the counter shaft when sliding the through shaft in. Other than that, the rest is basicly held to the main shaft with snap rings, just k eeping it in order. Far easier and less parts than a th400.

 

I too have had very good results dealing with Ethan.
I had a customer's '66 Corvette in the shop last year for a multitude of attention, ..... one item on the list was to change his close ratio Muncie (from a '70 ZR1 Corvette) to a wide ratio. When I started to tear it down I found that 2 of the 3 keys for the 3-4 hub/slider had been trashed and were scattered about the inside. Needless to say that trans got a full boatload of parts. Trans parts and labor was $1200, and that was with a full set of very good USED gears. Customer told me he couldn't understand it because the trans had always shifted perfectly. I guess my point is even if those Muncies seem to be working when in service, ... once you open those old boxes up you never know what you'll find. Good thing the main shaft fit tight in the front of the case. There's no way to tell until it's apart, unless it leaks there. The loose ones can be very costly to get corrected properly.
All in all, I believe $800 for that trans rebuild is a very good deal.
Ben- I use "Dr. Tranny's Assemblee Goo" to hold those needle bearings in place, .... works slick! Then that grease breaks down at operating temperature and gets absorbed into the gear lube.

Larry

 

Yep, good deal or not, that part right there was agreed upon by both parties. Just playing a neutral watcher of the situation, but the fact that a partial refund was offered (a stand up move, above and beyond actually) and accepted, then pulled back isn't the best thing to do, in my opinion. Both sides have great points, but that is the only part of contention....

 

On the $500
1.It was late and I was in bed, should have slep on it I agree,.. offer wouldn't have been made

2.I only offered it to make the issue go away NOT because I truly felt I owed it. You know like how Walmart will give the society leeches $ when they slip on the wet floor even tho there are "caution wet floor" signs

3.He said the trans was $800 iirc to repair so undoubtedly it wasn't completely trashed. 2000+800+ some labor= swap.
If you're hung up on the $500 the above means nothing I suppose. I on the otherhand look at the whole picture


4.IMO I should have never been bothered with being asked for anything...Wouldn't have heard a peep out of me.

5.No warranty was implied

6.I'm not Autozone

7.used parts are a gamble,..always have been

8.As to me changing my mind, yea I did...I also changed my mind to drive my 07 Tahoe after almost getting in my 70 Skylark couple years ago....and was hit in the driver door by a drunk at 60 mph in a E350 van. Moral of the story you ask?? I changed my mind and saved my tail, kinda like how we don't marry the first girl you throw dirt at on the playground.

I've given away more labor and stuff than alot of guys have charged for or sold. IE my conscious is clear