Holley Projection 4di on a 300. Help! wont start now it's cold

I would change that cold loop setting back to 110 degrees. The reason i would is because you run a three wire 02 which does not have a heater wire in it. these 02 have to warm up on thier own. How far down are those 02 from the header? 12 -18 inches..?is that tps calibrated correctly? @ idle does it give you a voltage or a percent. if it is a percent it should be around 7-10% during cold start up. can you manually adjust that throttle blade to bring that idle up to 1000rpms @idle. dont be scared to bring that timing up to 18 degrees but i would start at 12-15. You are running a aluminum motor so you can get away with a little more timming.once you get rid of the popping i would fine tune the timming. what is your total timing? 32@2500rpms. what does the plugs look like.Are they black with soot? if so you need less fuel in the program?how is she starting when it is @18? does it sound like is is too advance? it would sound like a low battery and slow crank. when your reading a a computor think of this when you see .8 the computor see's .8 which =rich. the computor than will shorten pulse to try to get it to run around .4-.5 . under load you want it to run .6-.8. let me know how those plugs look and how much vaccum are you producing? when setting timing try to get as much vacuum as possible 18-22 inches.
paul
66larkgs
turbo 401 nailhead

 

Hooked up the computer this morning and the temp is at 39 degrees for both ambient and internal. When I tried to start it she shuttered then nothing. It sounds like no spark but I know it's there. I took off the air cleaner and cranked it again and it is spraying fully all 4 injectors again. It is flooding again and when I push full throttle it still sprays full all 4. The only way to clear the flood is to pull the injector wires.

I pulled a spark plug and its wet and black with soot. I have been trying to start it for about an hour and it will only shake a little now and then. I hooked up the fuel to give it a little spray then disconnect only to get a little more shuttering.

I have shorty headers and the o2 is down a few inches from the collector at about the level of the starter.

I set the tps per instructions. The manual had me start at a setting of 40 to get it started. At 40 the idle was about 1800 rpm. Then gradually turn the tps down to 30. It then had me place my fiinger over the IAC (idle air control) motor intake hole and set the idle to 50 rpm less than desired idle. I have to set the idle with both tps adjustment as well as set screw manual blade adjusment. The tps full range must be a voltage, it is a number from about 25 to 215 so at 30 that will be about 2-3 percent. On cold start I checked all the numbers and the tps doesn't change. Sounds like the IAC motor is the only idle air.

I am going to advance it a little and if I can get it started I will check the vacuum.

Also, I found the IAC setting and it has a range of 0-250. It is set at 0. I will try playing with this number as well.

 

Your iac is your choke.. it moves in and out allow more air in depending on engine temp.if that isent set right it will never run..iac will also effect idle traits, it will cause hard starting.Have you tried putting your hand over the throttle body and unplug the injectors when you first try to start it. I would start with basics and i would double check you timing and your spark. bring it up to tdc compression on the number one cyclinder. take off you valve cover and watch the valves, as the intake opens than shuts watch your line on your balancer. set the line to zero and you are at where you want to be. now, make sure your rotor in your distributor is pointing to the brass piece on the inside of the dist cap for the number one spark plug wire.If that rotor is pointing to number one you are good. if not you are off. you could be off a tooth and mess you all up. Start with your basics and make sure you have your timing and fuel pressure right.

Paul
66larkgs
turbo 401 nailhead

 

Finally got it to start. I have to play with the injectors by unplugging them to keep it from flooding. I set the timing to 18 and it runs much better. I increased the tps to 35 and increased the idle to 1000.The vacuum is in the 18-20 range. I don't have any way to check the timing at 2500 but judging from the looks of it I would say it's in the mid 30 range at 2500. I don't think I have the cam off by one tooth (and I hope I don't). Once I have it started it runs great. I brought it up to temperature and when I turn it off sometimes it starts with out touching the trottle and sometimes it won't. I played with the number range on the iac but with the engine warmed up it doesn't seam to make any difference.

With all the playing I need to do to get it started it looks like it's getting too much fuel and not enouph air when cold. When it's warm everything is great.

How do I set the iac? I'd bet this has something to do with it.

 

66lakgs - Thank you very much for your help. It's great to be able to bounce ideas out for knowledge and reminders.

The light is almost on again.:idea2:

The Holley link you provided is the book that came with the kit. The problem I am having is the software in the book is not the same as the software I have. In the beginning of this project I had to find an old Windows 3 computer to load the 3 floppy disks of software. The original software is DOS and it has two programs. One program for tuning and one for monitoring. When I first started to set this up and follow the software and manual I had both programs running on the computer. The monitor software shows the current settings and the other lets you make the changes and save them. With both programs running I tried to start the car and in a cloud of smoke it fried the desktop computer. I called Holley tech support and they told me to purchase the new upgraded eProm chip and software from Summit Racing. The new software is Windows 95 and is very different from the original manual. Holley support provided a link to an updated manual that I printed out so I tossed the original manual on the work bench and didn't look at it again. (I will see if I can find that link to the new booklet and post it here for others that may want to see it.) I found another old computer and I followed the new book word for word but thanks to your tips and reference to the old book I can see now that the new book is missing lots of information on tuning. Looks like this is the problem and I will have to study the old software steps and find a way to work that into the new software.

I will go through your tips and see if I can make some sense out of this.

 

Looks like today I am back to square one. It just keeps flooding when it's cold. I have been cranking on the poor thing for over an hour and the injectors keep pulsing way too much fuel. I have tried everything to slow the flow but nothing is working.

 

have you checked that coolant temp sensor?

 

I have tested every part and wire. All tested correct (every voltage, pressure, and range). Everthing is new and is working like new.

When I finally got it started on Saturday and warmed it to 180 the car ran fantastic. Timing, fuel volume, temperatures, pressures, vacuum, everything is correct. Each time I shut it off I could restart it with just a click of the key. I let it cool down to about 60 degrees and it still started with just a click. I let it cool overnight and it flooded.

The cold engine settings allow me to add extra fuel for cold starts. Holley set the cold start to add 50% more fuel at 30 degrees. I changed that number to 0 but I don't see any change.

The software shows full fuel possible at 245. When the engine is warm the fuel volume is 45-50 at idle and a pulse of 1900. When the engine is cold the pulse on cranking is 11,000 and volume of 245. I can't find anything in the software to change these numbers when cranking cold. The graphs allow me to set the fuel volume as low as 1 at any point of the rpm or map range. I dropped the full graph to 1 and it still sprays 245. I have played with every setting possible and nothing will change this 245 number when cranking this cold. It makes no sense.o No:

 

Heat wave this morning. 41 degrees so I diceded to try to start the car. Plugged in the computer to see the numbers. Fuel volume at 163 and pulse at 2400. What? That's right were it's supposed to be.

Turned the key and it started right up.

It's going to get down to single digits next week. I will keep trying it at different temps. It makes no sense why some days it's flowing all out and other days it's just right.

I haven't been looking closely at the map senser and the barometric pressure. Maybe a low pressure atmosphere may effect the map but I don't think it can have that much of an effect. o No:

 

Garage is 27 degrees today. The numbers on the computer went crazy again. The fuel volume shows max again at 245 and duration at 11,000.

I pulled the 300 rpm fuel numbers down about 40 percent and I lowered the cold start numbers about 50 percent and the numbers did finally come down. The volume dropped to 192 and the duration to 9600 and it almost started before it flooded again and killing the battery. I think I am finally on the right track. I'm sure this will screw up my warm starts but now I know the way to move the numbers around in 10 degree temperature steps so my start up curve on the little motor is way different from anything else I have read or seen.

I looked at the map vacumm numbers and they don't move much on start up. I would think my cam may be goofing with the vacumm a little as well but not much on start up, only when it actually chugs and tries to start does the map numbers move. It doesn't look like the barametric pressure has any effect either.

 

Any updates?

 

I haven't been able to work on it much but I did start it over the week end. It warmed up and was in the 50's so I was sure it would start. Stupid me, I forgot and left the battery charger on all week and I was worried that I may have overcharged the battery. I clicked the starter and she fired up no problem. I checked the battery again later on Sunday and she flooded. :rant:

We are expecting another cold spell so this weekend I will be playing with the numbers again.

 

:rant: :rant: :rant: As much as I hate too... I think it is time to through in the towel.

I turned the fuel numbers down as far as possible. The fuel volume is set at 0 and the durations absolute minimum will go to 77 u sec. When it is warm outside that will shut the fuel off but for some reason when it is cold the fuel is still sprays constant.

I talked to Holley support and they tell me that the pump must be malfunctioning when cold and pushing too much pressure. They tell me the pump is set to push 15psi but the regulator will adjust from 10-20 psi. I can't get mine to go below 18 so Holley told me that I needed to replalce the pump and drop the pressure to 10. I installed the new pump today and nothing changed. The minimum pressure out of the regulator is still 18psi and the fuel is still spraying when I have everything set to spray zero. The only way to stop the fuel is to pull the wire harness.

I did finally distroy the battery and I am concerned that I will burn up my expensive high torque starter from cranking on this poor little 11to1 motor.

I took some photos of the dash for my build update and I noticed that the fuel guage was on empty. The gauge was on 1/2 when I started trying to set the cold start. This shows how much fuel this thing can spray. I have gone through 10 gallons of gas trying to start this poor thing and I am willing to bet that I have standing fuel in the exhaust. Not a good situation if this thing fired.:af:

I have put lots of hours and expense into this injection system and I don't want to give up but I think I have tried everything and it just doesn't like the cold.

 

sell it on ebay and start fresh!!! i was looking into running a FAST exi setup... or you can cheap it out and run megasquit.. alot of people seem to like that setup. the Fast setup is exspensive but a nice unit. Weld in some injector bungs into your intake and than just run a throttle body on top of your intake.
paul
66lark gs
turbo nailhead

 

Good advise. Starting to think towards other units and options. This old unit will make a great off road system for a small block. It will most likely be showing up on eBay for the wheelers.