Help with my little 350 please...

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by [JP], Sep 2, 2017.

  1. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Thank you.

    yes I'll be lapping the valves for sure. seems like the sensible thing to do as it has to come apart anyway as I'm getting new valve springs to go with the cam.

    I definitely drive it like a grandma! hahaha, it's a cruising vehicle for me, with the odd wheel spinning coming off traffic lights. most of the time I do 50mph or even less.
    highway cruising is usually at 55 / 60

    I was on the phone with TA yesterday, couldn't really wait any longer, damn.. not sure who the girl I spoke with was but her voice.... wow! what a sexy voice.
    anway, very helpful people there.
    They say they will try their best to get the box of parts to Oklahoma before the 15th of December, they still have to box it all, get a shipping price, then get in touch with me for the money wire transfer (just the money side will take about 4 working days)... but should get there before container leaves. fingers crossed.

    I have ordered new piston rings for standard size as the boring and oversized pistons are out of question due to cost.
    However, I will try and make it work the best I can considering cost constraints.

    Would this thinking be ok? I know it's not the perfect ideal way...but will be the best considering costs:

    I understand the bores can wear in a different way and the piston rings in there are "shaped" to the bores.
    I was thinking of measuring the bores (top/centre/bottom) and if massively out of spec (shape) then I'll leave the existing rings in there. maybe do a hone anyway? what do you think?
    But if the shape of bores are within tolerances then I will do a hone and fit new rings. ( not sure what the tolerances are or what it should measure... I really need to get a manual!)

    How does that sound? As I understand that if they are out of shape and I fit the new rings, then it's likely to cause more problems (then leaving the existing ones there) and smoke...
    I know, not ideal, if out of spec then for a proper job it should have a rebore, new oversized pistons and new rings. but cost on that would be crazy expensive.

    thanks!
     
  2. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    That's what I did with my SP 350. Hone, cleaned up the pistons on a wire wheel, new rings bearings and gaskets, lapped the valves with a power drill and rubber hose, badda bing badda boom. And yes, new cam and springs, valve seals, etc.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    As long as you're careful, and have the engine be as clean as possible, everything will be fine. If it was running fine before then new rings and what not ain't gonna hurt it. Make sure you get a nice 45 degree cross hatching pattern with the hone. I used a ball hone, which is really just meant for glaze busting, giving the cylinder some texture again. Used WD40 as a lube, some use diesel or cutting oil. Do a couple passes to get the technique down. It helps to have a selectable speed drill then it's just about the up and down. CLEAN THE HELL OUT OF THE BORES. I can't stress that enough. Buy as many rolls of blue shop paper towels (soft ones) and brake cleaner as you can because it has to be spotless. The greyish residue in there is metal shavings. Engines don't like shavings of any type.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  4. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    X2 on the cylinder wall glaze. Got to cut that. Or new rings won’t do anything. Ball hone. Stone hone. You don’t need a lot to cut it . Clean engine well as mentioned too. Degreeser and a pressure washer( hot is better) . Is good for initial clean. Just wipe or use air gun to get water out of block
     
  5. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    For the hone I can do a few test runs on an old block that is at the back of the workshop, just to get the technique right.
    Won't even need a wire wheel to clean the pistons as the carbon on top is so little it comes off with a rag and WD40...

    I have a lot of break cleaner available on a pressurised container so I'll be using that for the clean up and the pressure washer as well as the blue roll, have a ton of that too.

    Does anyone know what the bores spec should be for when I measure it?
    and what outside of spec is?
    just to decide if I leave the old rings in or the new ones will be fine (if cylinder not too oval)

    thanks!
     
  6. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    There's no reason to leave the old rings in. It will never seal as well as a fresh (or as fresh as a hone can get it) bore with new rings. Even if your bore is out of round, you'll want new rings and a fresh sealing surface or it will aggravate the problem. I used this hone. Don't freak out that it says it's 3.75 inches, it fits in the bore snug as a bug and gives a great pattern, proving it's done correctly. I assume you know already, but NEVER let it stop in the bore. EVER. You'll screw up the pattern and you'll have to start again. Spin before it goes in, only let it stop after it's all the way out. I used a piece of tape as a depth guide, go too deep and you risk hitting the main webbing and breaking a stone off. Shove a few clean rags in the bottom of the bores if you want.
     
  7. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    And use standard cast iron rings. They're the most forgiving when it comes to sealing in a bore. Make sure they're gapped correctly if they're the kind you have to gap yourself. If you don't have one already, you gotta get a ring filer. It'll pay for itself almost immediately. ALWAYS spin the wheel towards you, with the ring right side up, and the gap AWAY from you. Go little teeny bits at a time, check often, and debur the rings. All 32 of them. If they are pre gapped, make sure they are more or less the same gap with feeler gauges. That's a fun way to measure bore taper, stick the ring in the top, middle, and bottom of the bore. Measure the gap. Won't tell you the size, but it'll give you a rough idea of the taper. Read the directions. The rings I got with my rebuild kit were in the wrong damn place in the box. The 2nd rings were in the top ring slot, and the top rings were in the 2nd ring slot. Gap is what... .017 to .019? Somewhere around there? Mine came out at .020 out of the box, but I assume that's because my motor is a lil wollered out.
     
  8. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    Good advice.
     
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  9. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    MrSony... I thank you!

    beautiful pieces of advice there. thank you very much.

    I will use the new rings then seeing as it's the better option., and yes I ordered cast ones, so will do the hone, new rings.
    thanks for the tips on the honing, never done one before, have watched a few videos on youtube and the guy also said about putting tape on it to mark it how far down to go.

    Never seen that honing tool you posted.. I was thinking of something like this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cylinder...641078&hash=item212c9f2b91:g:6D0AAOSwxbtZmvwj
    Not as good? or not advisable? I can get the one you mention, but thought if the one I linked to is good then being adjustable I could use on bikes or other engines if needed?

    Had also never seen a ring filer! ah!! I use a contraption of a metal plate with a slot cut in it, with a dremmel attached underneath the plate and the grinding wheel coming up through the slot. the plate and the grinding wheel are exactly square... so I'm guessing it will be as good as that tool?

    thanks for your advice!
    I can't wait till I get all the parts here and start putting it all together
     
  10. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    You could use that hone, yes, but I generally prefer ball hones for automotive engines. If I'm doin up a lawn mower or a minibike engine I'll just rent the derpy three bar hone from the auto parts store. Up to you really. same with the ring filer. If your setup works, it works. The filer I linked to is easy to use, has little pegs to hold the ring and everything. Just screw it to a table and spin away. Regardless, make sure you leave a good pattern, clean the snot out of it, and debur the rings. Oh, oil the wrist pins on the rods if they feel like they're grabby or sticky in their movement.
     
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  11. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill Well-Known Member

    The 3 stone hone will NOT cut through the glaze on the cylinder walls. Get a ball hone, the 3 stone I usually use it after ball honing to smooth the cylinder back out a bit from the deglaze ball hone.

    DO NOT start spinning the thing before it is in the bore! Just make sure you are moving the thing up and down while it is spinning. And when you stop it IN the bore, just make sure to stop on a up or down stroke timed out for it to stop at the end of the stroke.

    Not real hard to get use to doing, after the first one I'm sure you'll be a pro at it. Just make sure the faster you spin the hone the faster you will need to make it travel up and down to maintain your close to 45* crosshatch pattern.

    And with the pistons out now maybe consider doing the oil mods? Decide for yourself, no further discussion needed on the topic, pros and cons were WAY over explained and over discussed already(PM me if you decide to do them and have any questions). GL
     
  12. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    not sure if I can get the ball hone tool over here, don't seem to be able to find one.
    Maybe need a bit more googling..

    found a company over here, but damn.. there's a lot of options on the material type and how abrasive!

    https://www.pacehigh.co.uk/flex-hone-tools

    EDIT: just realised it's the same brand MrSony posted and on Summit website it actually says the size, diameter, and type of abrasive material :)
     
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  13. mikethegoon

    mikethegoon Well-Known Member

    Here goes some homegrown technology IMG_20171205_101454.jpg IMG_20171205_101444.jpg blocking heat crossover with currency.
     
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  14. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Small update, sorry not logged in some time.

    It's all in the hands of UPS at the moment. I might have missed the shipping container...... if the box from TA is not delivered this Friday then that's it. Parts will be sitting in the warehouse till June, when my friend ships the next container.
    He's taking all the gear (trucks, bikes, parts, etc) to Houston on saturday and that's it.
    fingers crossed for UPS to deliver the goods in time. :(
     
  15. mikethegoon

    mikethegoon Well-Known Member

    Maybe no Christmas for you Jp. My engine ran out of gas then upon starting it started on fire. Put it.o ut rather quickly tho. Now when I start it I try to rev it up enough for it to stay running. Well to work I go see ya
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  16. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Ohh there will be Christmas as there's a 1951 Panhead in that shipping container for me. :) but was looking forward to work on the engine and get the truck running again.
    fingers crossed for UPS to be good....
     
  17. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    Hope all goes well with the shipping.
     
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  18. mikethegoon

    mikethegoon Well-Known Member

    They called me outside yesterday - a customer. driving 69 rag 350 pertronix. Alum 3 core good core support yellow over tan with resale red covering yellow strong idle. Not like mine which us about 450 rpm. No way to move mine up. Guy said his friend owned it and he offered 10k.but was turned down. In summertime someone said they brought their Buick it was a 56 or7 roadmaster 430 alum street T/A heads and it carried what the guy said was 1 of 4? M/T Weber. Intakes didn't think about taking pics either but one thing I won't forget is that big. Buick breathing thru 8 individual venturi !!!! !!!!
     
  19. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Well.... good news!!
    Got a message from my friend.. UPS were good and delivered the box with all the parts in time!!!! Woohoo!!!!

    Monday they will be in transit to Houston to get it in the container.. then it's about a 4 week week wait to come across the pond!
     
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