Help with Ignition Problem

Was wondering if I could get some help with an ignition problem. My 63 Riviera would not start so I began checking the obvious things, spark, fuel, etc. It turns out my coil went bad, so I thought! It would not create a spark. I pulled the wire from the coil out of the distributor and had my wife crank it over, held the end of the wire to the engine block... no spark. So no big deal, went to Auto-zone and got a new coil. Same thing, no spark. Took the coil back to Auto-zone, they gave me a new one. And again no spark.

All that being said. My coil has a Red and a Black wire going to the Positive Terminal. And a black wire from the points to the Negative terminal of the coil.

The back wire going to the Positive Terminal of the coil is giving me 12 volts with the ignition key turned to on. So that one is coming from the battery. The red one gives me nothing. According to the shop manual this one is the Resistance wire that is supposed to protect the points from burning out.

It says that once the ignition key is turned to start (Cranking) then power comes from the battery to the coil. So I'm not sure what I'm missing. Or if I'm making any sense... ignition is not my strong suit. My question, is there some sort of fuse or something that may had burned out that I'm missing?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I've attached a pic:


Thanks,
Scott

 

I will try to help,

Ignition coil supply voltage should be thru resistor so that it gets reduced voltage in "run" position. It only gets full 12v in "crank" from the starter. So you should have low voltage with key on and 12v while cranking. If you have this, replace points and condensor.

 

If your 'run' voltage is 12, a new coil will run that way for about a month (using it as a driver) then the coil will die and its bottom will be pooched out. If you aren't seeing 12v at crank and less at run then check switch and wiring.
Patrick

 

Sounds to me like your points or condenser are bad and you are not getting the trigger to fire the coil.

As already stated + side of coil should have 12 volts only while cranking and lesser voltage ( around 8 volts ) while running. If you have 12 volts all the time the points will burn .

 

An easy check for points failed is to have someone crank the engine over while you have a meter or light attached to the negative side of the coil. If you don't see a flicker of the light or variation in voltage in the meter, your points are not opening or closing. My guess would be not opening, due to the rubbing block worn out. This would be a good time to buy a Chassis Service Manual and electronic ignition (if you want more reliable ignition), if you want to be able to fix your car without dropping a ton of money.

 

Thank you all for the suggestions. I purchaced a PerTronic electronic ignition, coil, and wire set for my car instead of new points and condensor. Installed everything exactly as the instructions directed and as this guy did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyk22-sVRhE

I also tested the Red and Black wire coming from the firewall. Here are my findings.

• The Red Wire which I believe to be the resistance wire gives me no voltage in all scenarios. Key On, Off, or Cranking.
• The Black Wire, gives me 12 volts with the Key in "On" Position and when trying to crank it fluctuates down between 7-8 volts. This sounds like the opposite of what it's supposed to be doing!

My battery may be low from trying to crank so many times so it's on the charger now. Perhaps I need a new battery too.

-Scott

 

I had a similar (but different) problem with my Pertronix in a 63 Wildcat. Check the black wire from switch has voltage while cranking, I had a 12v wire that dropped voltage during cranking; the moment I found the right wire (black) and hooked it up, all go. All the testing I did with ignition turned on showed spark but it just wouldn't fire once cranking till I got the correct wire.
I have no resistance wire (removed) or ballast resistor in my setup.

 

Thanks Jason,

I'm looking through that now. I'm not sure if this applies completely now that I've installed the electronic ignition. I also purchased new points and condenser. I may install these if I can't get the electronic ignition working.

 

Thanks, I'll check this as well. I have brand new Electronic Ignition and brand new points and condenser. I'd ought to get one of these working!!! :eek2:

I've got the Pertronix in now so I'll go with your suggestion for now. Sounds very similar. When you say black wire from switch. What exactly are you referring to when you say switch, the ignition key that you turn to crank?

Thanks,
Scott

 

Yes, I know! I should had done that first. I'm going to mess with the electronic ignition for a bit. If I can't get anything going I'll put the new points and condenser in and go through the diagnosis chart you posted.

 

A '63 Riv. as well as a '63 Wildcat has a diff. ignition switch than, let's say a '64 & up. The black wire on the ignition switch is for 12 volts ONLY while cranking. It DOES NOT come from the starter. I went thru this on a '63 Riv. at my shop a few yrs. ago. Since the '63 switches are ONE YR. ONLY I used a more readily available '64 & up switch & ran a Yellow wire from the starter solenoid "R" terminal up to the + side of the coil. Since this '63 had the original starter there was NO "R" terminal on the starter solenoid so I had to replace the solenoid. In this case it solved MANY MULTITUDES of problems we were having all at the same time.


Tom T.

 

Perhaps 'hotwire' the coil from the battery. If that works then trace the wiring issue.

 

Stop what your doing before you cost yourself more money for nothing.
You must properly diagnose a fault before just throwing parts at it
Never modify a system that does not work in the hope that afterwards, it will (if you stuff up the modification, you now have 2 problems to find)

I am an auto electrician and sort this stuff out quite often, but I must say, not on your exact car (I am in Australia and they arnt thick on the ground here)

First thing is a test light is much more preferable to use than a multi meter for testing this problem. If you don't have one, buy one or make one, they are not expensive
and also, make sure its a light bulb type, not LED

Old school car = old school tools.

As the chart above suggests, tests are done systematically, skip tests only if they become irrelevant.

Now, to test for power on the + of the coil, 1 end of the test light to earth (neg of battery, clean shiny metal somewhere) then put the probe end on a known pos power source (pos battery terminal is good)
Make sure the light lights, it does? good, this means the light works and the earth for your light is good.
Turn the key to on/run position, touch the probe to the + of the coil, light lights, ignition switch and wiring (including ballast) ok, pending later testing to see if the ballast has been bypassed.
No power on the +, make sure key is in the right position and not on accessories or something, If correct, faulty ignition switch or ballast.
Some cars (most likely applies to yours) have a resistance wire built into the harness for the ballast, others have a separate resister block bolted to the firewall (normally about 2" long and white ceramic)
If the ballast is blown, you need to find and repair this, but a normal symptom of a blown ballast is the car starts then stops when you let go of the key.

Ok, so you have power (don't care about voltage , but as an aside, a good charged battery is always needed for electrics to work properly) with the key on, turn the car to crank (use the key to do this, not hot wire so you don't bypass the circuits we trying to test) Is there still power at the + of the coil? if yes, is it bright or dull? , if its dull or no power at all, put the probe on the battery pos again and turn the key to crank, if its about the same dull, then its ok
if its not, most likely means the factory bypass system is not working and you need to fix this.

Now, I could keep going on and writing a book on how to diagnose and repair a simple circuit like this, or I could tell you to buy a service manual where someone has already typed out how to repair this circuit or the simple way to
test the power side if your net electrically minded is to put a wire from the pos of the battery to the pos of the coil, if it starts and runs, you have a power supply fault to the coil, if it don't, then its on the distributor side (- side of the coil) or the coil itself.
Keep posting your findings, but don't buy more parts or change anything until you know for sure you need to.

Google points ignition system and you should find a general picture that shows how it works and as you said you have put a pertronics in now, the points testing is irrelevant except that, as the engine turns, it still must "pulse" on the - side of the coil.
I cant look at your car, but I have to say, I am not confident in your installation of the pertronics, it might be right or it might not be.

Just as an aside, sometimes its cheaper in the long run to get a professional out to fix things if your not sure whats going on.
Good to learn though, but learning normally costs money one way or another

Good luck

 

Get a schematic and fix the wiring issue.

 

First try this.