HELP - No Spark from the coil, stinger system. Hi Just got my GS455 all back together. Couldnt get it started from the begining so I thought it was timing. So I got my #1 cylinder to TDC and about 35 degrees on timing mark. It finally started and ran without any issues for 15 min. I saw some antifreeze dripping so I turn the car off, fixed it and then could not get it started again. I thought it was timing again and did it again and no start. So I started from the begining, check if I have power at the coil and that checked out ok but the problem is that I get no power using a meter, from the positive side of the coil to the negative side of the coil. I place a timing gun to the main line from the coil to the disturbutor and nothing. I am a little puzzled. BTW I do have a stinger system and it all wire correctly, I think. My guess there might be some problem with a ground. The reason I know there is a problem at the coil is that I have another GS350 that when I turn the igintion key on at the coil, I get power from the positive side of the coil to the negative. Hope someone can help me out! George
Disconnect the wires on both sides of the coil and use your meter as an Ohmmeter across the coil. You should have a very high resistance reading, but there should be a reading. If the meter shows an out of range or infinity reading the coil is open. Also a timing light will not work on the supply leads to a coil, they only work on the high voltage caused by the feed to the spark plug.
Thanks for your help I'll take a look at it tonight. I hope others can give me additional advice. Should the inital timing be set around 38* to 40* since the stinger retards timing 1-1/2* every 1000 rpm?
Guys I really like to get this car running again! It has a stinger system. See Photos I went out again and had the iginition on this is the result with my meter: 1) I place the red probe on the + side of the coil and black probe on a ground and the meter gave me over 10 volts, then 2) I place the red probe on the - side of the coil and black probe on a ground and the meter showed over 10 volts, then 3) I place the red probe on the + side of the coil and black probe on the - side of the coil and meter showed nothing, I believe this is why it will fire up. I also have another GS350 with stock coil and points. I did the above #1 and #2 but when I did #3 it gave me 8 volts, this car starts no problem. BTW I did get the car started on monday for 15 min had to turn if off because of a small leak, fixed it then it didnt start again. I might also think that my timing is off. Prior to starting I found TDC then set it at 0 degees then I place the coil in and set to #1 plug. I need some help if I am doing something wrong. George
The additional information is helpful. The readings received in steps 1 & 2 shows good connections to the coil and through the coil. Step 3 indicates a problem with either the ground or the points staying open. I am not familiar with the type system you have installed but the voltage being present in 1 & 2 is normal and the different voltage in step 4 on the other engine is the actual voltage drop across the coil. That ignition system is properly grounded through the points or whatever causes the coil to fire, as I said I am not familiar with your system. To confirm that the ground is the problem set your meter on te Ohms scale and put 1 lead on a good ground and the other on the negative coil lead. You should read close to zero Ohms, if not that is your problem. If you have a points distributor check the condition of the points and be sure they are closing. If the system is electronic check the circuit that grounds the coil the same way. Hope this helps.
You have a Stinger Ignition System, correct? You can't compare that to a points system. The Stinger uses a box, and the distributor uses a magnetic pick up. Similar to an MSD system. The first thing I would do is check all the wiring connections to the distributor and box, especially the ground connection. Then I would check the air gap between the pick up and reluctor inside the distributor.(should be .002) As a last resort, you can try another coil. The one from your other car should work in a pinch. I'm not sure of the specs on the Stinger coil, it might be different. Stinger Ignition systems aren't made anymore. There is a way to check an MSD box when you suspect a problem. Not sure if this would work with a Stinger system, but it should. You pull the coil wire out of the center of the distributor cap, and position it close to a good ground. Then you disconnect the 2 wire connection to the distributor. With the ignition switch in the run position, use a paper clip or other conductor to short the 2 distributor wires ON THE BOX END of the connector. When you break the short, you should see a spark at the coil wire to ground. ---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 AM ---------- No, the total timing (no vacuum advance) should be set to 38-40* all in at 2500-3000 RPM. If you set the initial timing that high, not only will you over advance, but it will be difficult to crank when hot. You need to check your total timing. see my power timing thread, http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?63475-Power-Timing-your-Buick-V8 As far as your wiring, it looks like you have it right. Make sure the box ground (black wire) is connected to a good ground. The yellow/green wires go to the distributor pick up. Red wire from box, and existing wire from ignition switch go to coil positive. white wire from box to coil negative.
Guys I am pulling my hair out with this car! So far I have installed 2 other coils and points distributor and still no spark to the plugs. I checked the hot wire all the way to the wire harness all looked ok. I am now certain that the stinger sytem does not have a problem. It must be somewhere its grounding itself. This is what I am getting in voltage on all the wires. - Hot pink wire I get around 6 to 10 volts - Coil Hot pink wire connected to + side of coil and shows 6 to 10 volts when I ground the meter. - black wire from distributor to - side of coil and show 6 to 10 volts when I ground the meter. - When I connect the meter from red post to + side of coil and black post to - side of the meter I get nothing! I did this to my other GS and I get 6 to 10 volts. I believe this is the problem. George
Sounds to me that the coil is not being grounded for some reason. The gound opens on the coil (and it charges). When the coil gets a ground it fires (and you get your spark). You have a "box" that your Petronics sends a signal to and then this "box" grounds the coil. To test the pick up take both leads off and connect them to your meter with it on the "ohm" setting. Crank the engine while watching the meter. You will see some change while the engine turns. If there is a "change", it is the box (or the wiring). If no "change" then it may be your pick up ( the Petronics). Note: it will read better with an electronic meter than the analog type meter in your picture. ---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 PM ---------- Well I reread the thread and it was not until Larry's post that anything was said about a "box". Not to familar with a Stinger set up, I thought the later series did not have to have a "box". Post your entire spark producing set up(with a wiring diagram).
Mike Do you think it could be the ignition switch at the column? I did have to disconnect and adjust the rod from the transmission to column when I put the headers back on. Is it possible when in park that the iginition switch is not working, but it does turn over without any problem. Tomorrow I might put it in Nutural position instead of Park and also check the all the fuses. I hope someone local could possible stop by with a helping hand. George
I found this doing a web search- http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1310639&d=1304380890 maybe it will show you the proper connections. The ignition and neutral safety switches are working properly if you are able to crank the engine AND show 12 volts at the coil. You are not getting a voltage drop across the coil which means the coil is not being grounded. The voltage drop occurs when the coil is grounded and it becomes energized. If there is no voltage drop the voltage is the same when read to ground from both sides of the coil. It is as if you were to take a lamp that was lit and tested the voltage across the bulb contacts. You would read 110 volts drop across the lit bulb. Then you cut the wire leading to the neutral side of the plug. If you read across the light bulb socket you would now not see any voltage. If you took your volt meter and tested the hot side of the plug to the part of the neutral wire going to the receptacle you would read 110 volts, and if you tested the cut end of the wire from the lamp cord to the neutral side of the receptacle you would read 110 volts also. To correct a previously made comment, the coil charges when it is grounded and discharges when it is ungrounded. The coil operates on a collapsing electromagnetic field which because it collapses quickly across a great many turns of fine wire, produces a spark intensity of upwards of 18,000 volts on the old points distributors and more on the electronic ignition systems.
- I have checked all the wire connections with my stinger and its installed correctly. I then removed the stinger iginition and install my points distributor and get the same results at the coil. - My question when you say the coil is not being grounded then the problem could be between the coil and the distributor? - I get voltage to the + side of the coil when I ground using the meter, but I also get the same result on the - side of the coil, I dont believe this is correct. I have the wiring all the same, visual, between my 71GS350 and 72GS455. I tested both cars at the coil and I get different results, that is why I believe the car is not starting. George PS I hope someone local could help me out, I am sure it a simple fix that I am missing.
I don't think there is anything wrong with your ignition switch, but I would check to see that you have voltage at the coil + in the RUN, and Crank positions. See my link below. George, I am familiar with the Stinger system as that is what was on my car when I bought it. I'm thinking you have a more basic problem. Before you do anything else, check all the basics. Check the distributor cap inside and look for damage to the center terminal. Check the coil wire itself. Since the points resistor wire is untouched in a Stinger installation, read this thread and do the tests in it. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...nd-HEI-System-function-tests-and-modification When you substituted the points distributor, was it a known good one. Did you check the point gap? In a points system, the points provide the ground for the coil. When they are closed, electricity flows through the primary windings of the coil. A magnetic field develops around the primary windings. When the points open, the circuit is broken, the magnetic field collapses, and that induces a higher voltage in the secondary windings of the coil. If there is no voltage to the positive side of the coil in run and crank, or the coil is constantly grounded, you get no spark. If you have a 12 volt test lamp, you can hook it across the coil from + to -, crank the engine and it should flash as the coil is grounded and then ungrounded by the points. Like I said, I think you are missing something very basic.
As Larry said the points will provide the ground required for the coil to work properly. To see if the coil is working you can disconnect the negative side wiring and connect a temporary wire in its place. Turn your ignition switch on and then touch the wire to a good ground. You should see a spark from the circuit being made. If there is a spark, the original wiring has a problem, if there is no spark the coil would be the problem, but with you seeing voltage on both sides I think that is unlikely. If you get a spark when grounding the temporary wire remove the high tension lead from the center post of the distributor and install a spark plug into the wire end and ground the spark plug. Repeat the grounding of the coil wire and there should be a spark at the spark plug electrode like there would be with the plug installed in the engine. If there is no spark then the coil is weak and needs replacement. It is a straight forward, simple test and sounds more confusing than it really is. I have been playing around with cars and ignitions for about 55 years now and try to recommend the easiest solutions to problems. I do admit that the new ignition systems are alien to me though.
Tom Well my brother came over to overlook all the wiring. We get power on the + side of the coil when we use the meter and a ground. We also got power on the - side of the coil when we use the meter and a ground. We recheck TDC on the engine with a cork and then aligned the rotor to the #1 spark plue wire on the cap. We did notice alot of corrosion on in the plug post on the cap so we replaced with another cap. We placed a test plug on #1 plug and cranked the engine and nothing. Next we took the center distributor cap wire and cranked the motor to a ground and still nothing. I am really lost here, the car was running before I started working on it, I completed all the work it started for 15min till I had to turn it off for a leak then it didnt start again. I am so confused with this and I bet its a simple solution. Anyone want a real 72 GS455 that donesn't run, just kidding! If any one wants to call me and help me out and or give me advice please call my cell 267-481-0441 EST. George
George, What you need to do is repeat that test from coil + to ground WHILE THE ENGINE IS CRANKING. You may be losing the voltage when you go to crank it. Do that and we will go from there.
Larry Did what you asked, I gott 12v prior to starting then around 10v while its cranking. BTW I did take out the - wire from the coil when I did it just so there was noting on the coil except the hot wire while cranking. George
OK, that is normal, the starter load drags the voltage down to 10 volts, that's OK. Now, what I need to know is whether you are still using the Stinger set up, or the points distributor?
OK, get a 12 volt test lamp (cheap at any parts store). Attach it from coil + to coil -. Then crank the engine. The light should flash as you crank the engine. If not, the points are not gapped right or you have the lead to that attaches to the points touching the base plate (that will ground the coil constantly)
