Go Fast(er) 350 Suggestions?

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by pbulski, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. wovenweb

    wovenweb Platinum Level Contributor

    We've lost the original poster again haven't we?
     
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  2. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    AH HAAAAA!
    You just confirmed what I've been "feeling" with the various configurations of LS engines I've driven:D
    They're sweet V8's, but they lack the low rpm grunt of a Buick V8.
    Seems the trend with manufacturers of V6 and V8's today is to wing the engines faster, with higher stall convertors, deeper gears, to get the vehicle moving, then tame the rpm with 5, 6, up to 8 speed transmissions once up to speed.
    My 2000 Monte Carlo I had with the 3.4 V6 SUCKED for traction in rain or snow, it was the torque convertor, the 3.4 made crap for low end, so the factory puts in a 3000 stall convertor, light throttle wasn't enough to move it in snow, not enough torque, more and more throttle, HEY WE HAVE ENOUGH TORQUE NOW, but too much rpm, spin spin spin.
     
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  3. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    BINGO:p
     
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  4. Golden Oldie 65

    Golden Oldie 65 Well-Known Member

    Of course we have. He seemed to be in a relatively tight budget but most of the responses have him spending more money on the car than it's probably worth. Yes, the LS swap is a great option and although the engines themselves are fairly inexpensive, by the time you acquire everything needed for them to be in the car and ready to run it is not cheap by any means. It seems to me all he wanted was an economical way to improve the performance of what he already has. I believe the advice that most of these original posts are seeking would benefit by stating a specific budget range. There's a difference between $500 and $5,000, at least for me there is.
     
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  5. DEADMANSCURVE

    DEADMANSCURVE my first word : truck

    I might need a refresher course on the optima street car challenge but if it includes autocross etc scores is a turbo ( lag ) going to be benificial ?
     
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  6. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    The bottom end torque is not that bad on a 5.3 it’s still about 350 foot pounds at 2600 rpm and they carry the power to 6000 well even stock. Obviously the 6.0 is a better option for someone looking for low rpm torque... it’s tough to measure the low rpm torque on an engine dyno
     

    Attached Files:

  7. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    We put a 03 model 5.3 200r4 carbed setup in a Cutlass few years ago and from a standstill at idle it would bury the tach with wheelspeed and and lay stripes for a couple hundred feet. I've owned many 350 Skylarks and none would or could do that, I even put a nice 70 285hp 350 in a 84 Regal once it would lay rubber for 30ft or so and was done.

    There was no lack of low rpm TQ that I seen,..
     
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  8. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 355Xrs

    I could bake the 275-60-15 TA Radials (street tires) to the ground from a standstill. No brake tq required would go sideways and bang 2nd then would start to get a hold of the road. Like I said build it to the to the modern blueprint spec and it will smoke em. You can't take a stock 350 and expect it to run like a Modern LS motor without a good upgrade. Let's be real here there are over 40 years of improvements done to the LS motor.

    Compare the 350 Buick to a Chevelle 350 motor with the same compression then we have a dual.
     
  9. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    Take the roller cam out of the LS and put a flat tappet cam in. See how much it drops off. Compare apples to apples
     
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  10. pbulski

    pbulski Well-Known Member

    I really appreciate everyone's input and passion! Honest, open input and feedback is what makes this forum so valuable. I really am interested to hear other's ideas and suggestions. Let me explain mine a bit... Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Buick! Most of the suggestions above seem to be focused on drag racing but going fast in a straight line for 12 seconds doesn't interest me anymore. I'm building my Buick to be driven aggressively on road courses and autocross and be a pleasure to drive to car shows.

    My understanding, and it's no where near some of yours, but yes, I could build the sbb 350 and make 500 hp but the cost would be significantly higher than the same performance I could get from a modern LS crate motor. The LS Y-block has a bullet-proof bottom end, high flowing heads, and with EFI is completely tunable for any racing conditions. Bolt it to a modern Tremec 6 speed and it'll probably pull close to 20 mph. Those reasons... performance, tunability, efficiency, and reliability are why my plan is to go with an LS. Absolutely no disrespect for my Buick!

    My greatest regret is that building a motor is WAY MORE FUN than buying one. It's just hard to compete with price, performance and reliability.

    Thanks for all the input! I'll reach out to my uncle (original owner) and get the cam specs and details of the rebuild. Carb is stock QJet, exhaust is shot so I'll be replacing with 2.5" and probably a used set of headers (anyone got some for sale?). These details may help with some ideas for squeezing out a little more power before my first race in April. THANKS!!!
     
  11. pbulski

    pbulski Well-Known Member

    Well look what I just found in all the paperwork! The Comp Cam card... hope this helps
    Comp Cam Specs.jpg
     
  12. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    I had the 268 in my 8:1 '76 motor. It's a decent cam, but there are far better ones in existence.
     
  13. dr

    dr Well-Known Member

    Fox Den
    That was with the Buick 350? In a Skylark/GS?
     
  14. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Methinks you might be overlooking the attributes of the sbb Y block.
    Instant response of Buick power isn't lost when opening up the heads for more hp.
    Some things are spendy with an LS too.
    I bet you could match the price and performance level and have a more responsive engine off the corners.
     
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  15. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Well if its the price tag you're worried about to build a sbb then your worries are wrong.

    You can if you build it yourself, build a sbb 350 stroker relatively budget friendly.(as budget friendly as any performance build anyway)

    To build a sbb stroker you need to source a set of nascar take out rods(used nascar rods) that will cost pennies on the dollar compared to buying them new(around $75 to $350 depending on the auction and what your preference is). The used nascar rods that are for sale on eBay most of them will have enough life left in them for just about anything a sbb can throw at them. The crank or block will more than likely break before a set of those used rods would, so very dependable.

    A set of AutoTec customizable pistons will help save $$ on machining costs because they can be ordered in the bore size you want and the compression distance you tell them to make them with the wristpin size you need for the nascar take out rods you have as well. Using these, if the deck is in good enough shape you can skip having it milled, the deck height can be measured and the compression distance of the piston to get to zero deck(or .005" below is where I like them to be) can be ordered.

    If you're talking about buying a "crate motor" IMHO those things are WAY over priced! Expect to spend at least $5K(for 450 HP) on a "crate" when a sbb 350 stroker building it yourself will be closer to around $3,000 to $4,000 depending on if in you spring for a roller cam and roller rockers. This is even with the stroker topped off with a FiTech FI system! If and or when the TA sbb 350 aluminum heads ever become available, if those are added on the cost then you're around the same cost as the crate engine with even more power potential.

    A sbb 350 with cast iron heads and an aluminum intake probably is close to the same weight as an aluminum LS engine so don't expect to pick up any handling from less weight.

    If your argument is cost and reliability, then its not a very good one if you assemble the engine properly. A sbb stroker with rods that can't be broken unless you spray the thing with a 750 HP shot of No2 while revving it passed 10,000 RPM! But still if in anything were going to break it would be the block or the crank that let loose first.

    Did you even read the thread I posted a link for? This one;

    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/the-dyno-numbers-are-in.200499/

    If you still don't click the link, here is what that engine made N/A with a mild flat tappet cam and only 8:1 compression!;

    "N/A it made peak torque at 4800 @ 449 ftlbs HP was at 5300 and was 422.
    this thing was an animal with torque at 3500 it made 423 and never dropped below 400 until 5500 and was still 396"

    Add more compression to an N/A build and a solid roller cam and up goes the torque and HP AND the RPM peak as well!

    The better the port work you do or have done the more power you can make, by the time you're ready to do this the TA sbb 350 heads may be for sale? But the potential with the heads in the link for an all N/A engine would be over 500 HP if the build was optimized to run naturally aspirated.

    Whispers say that the TA heads will flow around 280 CFM intake side right out of the box, enough to make 600 HP N/A if the build was optimized! With porting if they can get up to around 335 CFM on the intake side the potential would be around 700 HP N/A!

    A sbb 350 from the factory is a big fat slow turd!(all of them!) But they do have potential when the factory shortcomings are corrected. They are rumored to have a higher nickel content in the cast iron they used for the block and heads, I would have to agree because when a high mileage one is torn down the cylinders have minimal wear in them. With more modern lighter pistons and modern rings, a properly built sbb 350 should run many thousands of miles when well maintained, just as much as any LS engine.

    Just wanted you to know your "justifications" to go LS aren't as justified as you thought. GL
     
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  16. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 355Xrs


    Yep, that was with a 350 Buick, 355 now. If I did not let it shift automatically into 2nd gear it would go to the rev limiter in first gear. That was from a standstill but I have a 373 gear and a 3500 stall in there. That was with Street TA radials they were easy to spin.

    I had so much fun with those tires some guys wanted me to spin the tires in front of a Corvette shop in Cleveland so I gave it a little brake torque to sit there and that did not take much banged 2nd grabbed 3rd and sat there with smoke flying out, then I rolled out in 3rd, mind you and let the engine come down to me, I saw a car go thru the smoke in my mirror. Left a pair of black marks in front of his shop, showed them what a Buick can do.

    He later got yelled by police for burning rubber on the street, I guess this went on all the time. I did this over 14 years ago.

    My Buick can smoke those stock tires, don't know about anybody else's. The Mickey T's drag radials won't let that happen at all. I haven't ran stock tires for years since they just don't hold the ground. Spinning the stock tires don't win any races, besides , who likes going sideways at 40 mph thit happens.

    It looks like our OP is going to go with the LS motor, at least it sounds like it. It is probably getting harder to stay with the old iron when the new is really so much better now.

    But running the old nostalgia carbed and cammed motor just does something to me.
     
  17. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    Preach on it, brother.
     
  18. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    You hit the nail on the head Guy!
    Personally I want to see how quick I can get MY 350 Buick powered GS down the 1/4 mile
    Yes there will ALWAYS be faster/more powerful cars, but if you try to compete with them, the battle will be endless as they always get faster and faster, before you know it, your tubbing, cutting it up, gutting it, crazy gears, it starts getting EXPENSIVE!
    IF those aluminum heads come out in time for my build, I'm going to run 'em, but I'm stopping there as far as upgrades, I wanna keep it a street car that I run at TNT for fun:D
     
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  19. partsrparts

    partsrparts Silver Level contributor

    I agree with Guy and Mark!
    I grew up street racing in the 70's when electronics were just coming on the scene and the big thing was solid lifter cam shafts and 4 speeds!
    Fast forward 40 yrs. Pop the hood on my X-body and go back in time, carburetor, HEI, headered, SBB!
    Getting it dialed in real close now, awesome torque! Nasty sounding exhaust!
    Car looks straight out of the 70's. I get a lot of looks and comments on it.
    It's still in the 50's here and the track opens the first of March so I can do the final fine tuning
     
  20. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 355Xrs

    The longer it takes for those heads to come out, the more people will think about the LS motor.

    I am still wanting for somebody to stick a Turbo V6 in their Skylark.

    June 8 open track for fun and frolic at Summit Motorsports Park.
     
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