Getting started on my first paint job. Do I have questions!

Discussion in 'Color is everything!' started by izanurse, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. izanurse

    izanurse Platinum Level Contributor

    I am painting my 71 Stage 1 at home. It is completely apart. The body is on a rotisserie. I am taking it down to metal with 80 grit. I’ve heard that some shops put a skim coat of filler on to start. I have purchased epoxy primer as well as high build primer. If I do a skim coat should it be over the epoxy fillet or on the bare metal? Thanks! Allen
     
  2. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    if you are to bare metal i think the first step is self etching primer.. others who are smarter will chime in I'm sure!
     
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  3. Houmark

    Houmark Well-Known Member

    When you are down to bare metal, put on epoxy primer and then filler afterwards.. that way the metal are most protected..
     
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  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    X3 on the primer first , but wanted to add that you weld any holes before priming. Using filler over open holes will invite moisture in from the back and eventual lumps, bumps and failure.
     
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  5. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Once it's bare metal, you can fix the obvious places before priming provided it's in a moisture free shop. If your shop is prone to moisture, epoxy prime it PPG DP is my choice, Southern Polyurethane has a good one also. Then do your repairs, technically you can go over the epoxy without a mechanical bond, but I don't do that, I grind to bare metal with 24grit for large areas or scuff with 60 for the smaller places.

    DO NOT Skim the panel that's asking for trouble especially if your not familiar with bodywork.

    Fix what you feel and let the Poly and high build primer bring it together.

    Use a quality filler such as 3M/Marson platinum or Rage Gold etc

    Use a metal glaze for the smoothing coat

    Filler is for shaping and glaze is for Finishing

    Weld all holes if they're are pitted areas blast them with a handheld blaster the epoxy then use Duraglass Filler

    Use Duraglass first where any metal patch work is done

    Glaze goes over 60 or 80, try not put glaze over 36 or 40 grit scratches in the filler

    First pull of filler and putty be sure to push the material in tight.

    Use flexible spreaders not the hard ones.

    Filler needs at least 40 grit scratches to feather, glaze needs 80 minimum into bare metal
     
  6. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Consider applying a Polyester primer be fore the high build. It serves several purposes

    1. Eliminates any shrinkage coming to the top after its exposed to sunlight.

    2. It allows more wiggle room in the bodywork as it can built up very high and dry blocked with a coarse paper ie 100/120/180 for a super flat surface

    3. It CANNOT be painted over you must apply a Urethane primer ontop of it so keep that in mind.

    4. It allows the Urethane primer to be thinner which goes a long way in gloss retention and shrinkage

    5. The mechanical bond is greater as you can leave the putty with a 120/100 finish
     
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  7. izanurse

    izanurse Platinum Level Contributor

    Thank you all for the comments thus far. The wealth of knowledge on the board never ceases to amaze me. I live in the desert and have a dry shop. At least I have that going for me. I will post progress and pictures as I move forward. Thanks again
     
  8. 1967 Big Buick

    1967 Big Buick One day at a time.

    Ive been painting and restoring for over 35 years, and i find Epoxy under filler is the best route to take. Never put filler over etch prime if you choose etch primer route, big no no. Then after filler is sanded apply your urethane high build primer. After primer is sanded...... any areas you sanded through on you can touch up with epoxy then reprime.
     
  9. izanurse

    izanurse Platinum Level Contributor


    Thanks for the input. Once I start with the urathane hibuild primer, how many coats should I lay between sanding sessions?
     
  10. 1967 Big Buick

    1967 Big Buick One day at a time.

    I always lay down 3 good coats then repeat if necessary. On my last application or primer, I let it dry as long as possible..... sometime 2 weeks or more. To allow for shrinkage. This way when you final sand you won't get sand scratches popping up down the road through your nicely painted finish.
     
  11. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    what should go between the etch and filler then?
     
  12. 1967 Big Buick

    1967 Big Buick One day at a time.

    Once you etch you then prime with a 2k urethane primer, then you can fill on top of that if you like.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  13. 1967 Big Buick

    1967 Big Buick One day at a time.

    When I went to PPG school way back in the day, they told us most body shop apply etch primer incorrectly.

    When spraying etch prime you are only suppose to put it on sparingly. So when your done spraying, you can still see the metal substrate. That's all that is needed. Body shop were so use to achieve hiding that they would load it on so it is completely covered. I was guilty of this as well.

    Etch primer is acid based and doesn't need much to do it's job, plus when it dried it hide or fogged over the metal substrate so you no longer could see through it. To much etch prime and it will fail.

    Etch prime is designed to adhere to metal. Wet on wet application was best. Unlike 2k primer it will grab itself just fine after it's skimmed over or dried 15 minutes.
     
  14. NZ GS 400

    NZ GS 400 Gold Level Contributor

    I am also finding this info helpful. Thanks guys! Ethan, just want to double check, are you referring to polyester spray filler? I am almost done with my putty work.
     
  15. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Yea "slick sand" by evercoat is what you want, Eastwood has their house brand that is supposedly pretty good, I just always use Slick sand

    It's not a must use type thing, I just prefer to use it when there has been a fair amount if bodywork done and you want a uniform substrate that's gotore meat than Urethane can safely provide
     
  16. NZ GS 400

    NZ GS 400 Gold Level Contributor

    I am not sure if I can get Slick Sand here in New Zealand. I have been using 3m products. Platinum Plus filler and finishing glaze. I will be using PPG Deltron high build primer, base, and clear. I guess I will go with their polyester if I can't find Slick Sand. I have also been considering a urethane sealer. Any thoughts about that?
     
  17. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Ppg has one in their "Shopline" used several gallons of it as well, all the same stuff

    And a 2k sealer is always a good idea. Certainly never hurts but not a must provided the primer is solid in color
     
  18. NZ GS 400

    NZ GS 400 Gold Level Contributor

    Awesome, thanks Ethan. Happy New Year!
     
  19. izanurse

    izanurse Platinum Level Contributor

    Thanks for all of the dialogue on this. I am learning a ton.
     
  20. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    I have sprayed maybe 20oz of actual etch primer in my life. Never seen a real need for it, Now I love my Spies, Smart, Duplicolor etch spraybomb. It's perfect for brackets and little doodads.

    But I'm a firm believer in blast then epoxy for stuff like frames, jambs, suspension stuff etc.

    I only strip a car with my Hog or 900sander as some guys call it, and my DA with 40paper then skim it with 60 and then epoxy, mainly because I'll have to stop and fix 50 other collision jobs before I get back on it.

    Epoxy isn't what it once was, it's still a good product and essential but it doesn't feather like it once did
     
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