Front disc brake hose size?

Discussion in 'The whoa and the sway.' started by rh455, May 26, 2005.

  1. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    I replaced everything on my front brakes awhile back. I finally got around to completing the system (m/c, prop valve,etc.) and had some problems with the left caliper hose leaking at the copper gaskets. I took the caliper off and checked the gasket surface(ridges) and found that some were flattened. So I went back and got another caliper only to realize that they're different where the hose attaches. The new hoses do fit, but when I put the exchanged caliper on, the bolt barely fits. The right side fit fine, no leaks. The only thing I can come up with it that the new hose is thicker than the original. The new hose looks to be 9/16" at the gasket surface(.580) and just under 5/8" on the unmachined surface. These are new replacement bolts that match the original bolts in length. Do any of you guys have an original hose in the toolbox or bench that you can compare measurements with?
     

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  2. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    Here's what the replacement caliper looks like. Notice different hose mounting surface location.
     

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  3. GStage1

    GStage1 Always looking for parts!

    I think that is a new repro unit from China. Does it say Delco Morraine on it?
    If not, take it back.
     
  4. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    George
    Yes it does say Delco-Moraine on the side. It a reman unit.
     
  5. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    I've figured out that these are Electra calipers. :Dou: I don't guess the parts guy at Carquest looked too hard. I'll send them back tomorrow and go to Advance Auto. They show the correct caliper. I still need to verify the hose is right. Their computer says it right but I don't know why the bolt is so short. It's the same length as the original. :Do No:
     
  6. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    How did you make out?? Is it me or are the copper gaskets a little thick as well??

    Tim
     
  7. gstewart

    gstewart Well-Known Member

    the look like copper washers not the thin copper washers/gaskets that i used.
    they need to be thin so that they mould to both surfaces.
     
  8. James P

    James P Founders Club Member

    I had this same problem with a set of SS replacement hoses from OPG when I converted my front end to disc. The ends were too thick making the bolt too short and the length of the machined ends were too long and wouldn't sit down flat on the caliper. I took the hose and caliper down to AutoZone. We compared everything with another set of calipers they had in stock and it turned the out the SS hoses were wrong. I sent them back and picked up a set of Russel lines from a local speed shop and they fit perfectly.

    I hope you get it sorted out. Dealing with all the leaking brake fluid while chasing these demons is a real PITA.
     
  9. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    I think that's what I'm going to do. I'll order a set of Earl's S/S hoses. I found that Chrysler used the same size banjo bolt just 1/8" longer. I couldn't find any thinner gaskets either.

    On edit: These might not work either. The under side of the head is smooth and has no ridges for the gasket to seal on. It does have a smooth area where the gasket would sit. I'll have to try it first.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2005
  10. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    Where might I find the thin gaskets? These thicker ones are not so thick across the surface area. I must have a dozen used pairs of these things laying on the floor of the garage. They ALL leak!!
     
  11. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    I got mine at GM just because I was standing there. Dirt cheap. Part number 231343 but usually the new hoses come with them...

    Later
    Tim
     
  12. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    I've been thru 4 sets of calipers, at least a dozen sets of copper washers. The damned things won't stop leaking!!! I'm about to give up, throw all this crap in the trash and go Wilwood!
     
  13. Iluvcarz

    Iluvcarz Member

    Brake hose leak

    I noticed in your first post that the surface of the brake hose on the head side of the banjo bolt looks odd. Almost curved where the gasket should seat flat against the hose boss. Is it flat? and without imperfections? Also check the sufaces of the caliper. Being a reman unit they surface can get bashed causing a leak. HTH
     
  14. Iluvcarz

    Iluvcarz Member

    Brake hose leaks...

    Also, If you can post a year and model, I can get you some part numbers to confirm you have the correct parts.

    As for thinner copper gaskets Wagner makes an assortment most traditional, non retail parts stores have. Auto Value, CarQuest, NAPA etc.
     
  15. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    The car is a '72 GS. Came with factory power disc(Delco-Moraine). I replaced with reman (Delco-Moraine) from Carquest the first few times then Advanced Auto this time part # 16-4039 and 16-4040. The gaskets leak on both caliper now. The brake hoses are flat on both sides. One side is concaved on one side but is machined down inside.
     
  16. Iluvcarz

    Iluvcarz Member

    hose leaks

    The part numbers for the calipers are AA1 Cardone type numbers which CQ sells. The 16-4039 and 16-4040 are the correct loaded (with brake pads and hardware) numbers for your car. AA1 Cardone is one of the best remanufacturers in the bus. so the trouble is probably not there unless the casting are damaged where they seal.

    The hoses should be Wagner number F73242 or AC Delco 18J1781. The hoses are suspect to me. Were they name brand? To have swapped the calipers as many times as you have and still have leaks is too wierd.

    Also, The banjo bolts are available through Motormite "HELP" # 13935 I am not sure if they are longer than what you had pictured but they worked great in a drum to disc conversion last fall.

    The gaskets should have come with the reman calipers. They are usually in a plastic bag in the bottom of the box.

    The bolt shown in your pic is too short to tighten up properly. The gaskets are designed to crush slightly when the bolt is tightened. If you tighten the bolts pictured that much the threads will pull out of the calipers. Also keep in mind that the bolt is hollow and will not tollerate much torque.

    I know this is all frustrating.... but this will all be a distant memory the next cruise. HTH Big Red. :3gears:
     
  17. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    I don't know the part # for the bolt, but it is a Motormite(Help) part. I brought the original bolt with me and it's the same exact length.

    The hoses are Tru Torque H732242 (Raybestos BH36616, EIS SP4516, Wagner F73242, Bendix 88466). I've been back to Advance Auto twice to veryify they're correct but I don't have my original hoses to verify thickness.

    The hose part # is the 3rd one down......
    http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?parttype=228&ptset=A&searchfor=Hose,+Brake


    Here's a photo of the original banjo bolt and the Motormite(Help) bolt...
     

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  18. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    Here's a photo of all three bolts in this order: Motormite(Help) replacement, original GM, and the Motormite Chrysler replacement. The Chrysler bolt is a little longer but has a slight raised pad under the head, the GM is flat smooth and the Motormite GM replacement has ridges just like the caliper surface does. The Chrysler bolt has a pronounced shoulder on the shank like the GM one does, but the Motormite GM bolt is not as pronounced. It's there, but it doesn't have the sharp edge like the others.
     

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  19. rh455

    rh455 Well-Known Member

    Here's one with the gaskets in place.....
     

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  20. Iluvcarz

    Iluvcarz Member

    Brkae hose leaks

    Reynold,
    In post #1 you show the pic of the hose, copper gaskets and bolt. Is this still what we are working with? If so, the hose and gaskets are suspect to me. I am in the parts business and it would not be the first time I saw a part that was an unknown brand name cause an issue. Professional techs are now demanding that any parts they install are original equipment quality or better in "form,fit and function" Humor me..... I am pretty sure you will find the troublesome hose to be dimensionally different. I will call the Wagner tech line Monday and get the dimensions and recommended gasket size.
     

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