Hello all I just bought my first Buick, a 1965 lesabre with a 300 two barrel carb and two speed transmission. Its super straight and virtually rust free, a bit of surface rust and small sections of cancer around the rear window. Runs and drives real nice as well. A friend was selling it to free up shop space and I really thought it had nice lines and would be a good looking ride, he made me an offer I couldn't refuse... All that being said, I know nothing about Buicks and thought I could easily power it up by dropping a chevy crate motor in it, turns out that is not so much the case. I was perusing a thread on building the 300 but alot of what was being talked about was way over my head and sounded very expensive. I'm not looking to build a monster hot rod, just looking to get a little of that V8 muscle feel. I'd like to upgrade to a 4 speed overdrive tranny as well. If possible I'd like some form of fuel injection as well, I haven't started researching that yet. So I'm hoping for some input on the best way to go about this. I'm guessing a crate Buick 350 will be where we end up, but who knows..? In my initial ignorance I was planning on a chevy 383 stroker. How hard would it be move up to a big block? Thanks for reading this and I appreciate any and all help and comments.
Those cars normally came with a 401 and turbo 400 so swapping in that combo would be relatively easy and they aren’t that hard to find. You would be happier with a nailhead.
Welcome from SE Michigan! If the engine runs good now but lacks a little oomph, start from the rear of the car with new rear gears, that alone will wake up off the line and passing performance. Get at the minimum of a 3.42:1 rear gear, but probably don't want more than a 4.10:1 even with an overdrive. A 200R4 with a 4.10:1 rear gear in that car with no other changes will feel like you're hitting the nitrous button every time you stomp on the gas peddle compared to what it is now! You can upgrade the 300 with a 4bbl intake and carb, but you'll have to buy a used factory intake or have a custom made because unfortunately there aren't any aftermarket ones made for that engine. If you go the custom intake route, TA Performance makes aluminum Rover heads that will bolt right on to the sbb 300. Those heads can be ported to flow 300 intake CFM, enough flow to support 600 HP if that's what your after?(but would need to build a stroker with a stroked sbb 350 crank to get that much out of it) There are more budget friendly ways to build a sbb 300 stroker as well, depends on how much cubic inches you want? With a .050" overbore and stroking the 300 crank .140" using a set of nascar takeout rods you can get 321 cubes out of a sbb 300. If you build it your self it would cost less than a sbc 383 "crate" engine even if you spring for a set of un-ported TA Rover heads for it. Keeping the cubes on the smaller side, you could get the Rover Wildcat(I think its called?) intake and just have spacers made to make it bolt to the sbb 300 with the TA Rover heads.(Rover bought the Buick 215 aluminum engine back in 1963 and ran with that engine design all the way to 2004 IIRC is the same platform as the sbb cast iron engines that your car has, the 215/300/340/350 all have the same basic architecture except for the 215 being made out of aluminum and the more the cubic inches went up the taller the deck height went up until the 340 that shares the same deck height as the 350. The 350 change was the intake and exhaust layout reconfiguration.) Of coarse a sbb 350 would bolt right up in the place of the 300 without all the hassles of reconfiguring the car to install a sbc in it. A sbb 350 stroker can be built for less than any "crate" sbc 383 if you build it yourself as well. Here is a sbb 370 stroker thread that makes some impressive torque and HP numbers with low compression and a flat tappet cam topped off with a dual plane intake; http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/the-dyno-numbers-are-in.200499/ "N/A it made peak torque at 4800 @ 449 ftlbs HP was at 5300 and was 422. this thing was an animal with torque at 3500 it made 423 and never dropped below 400 until 5500 and was still 396" The above build was built for a supercharger, if the sbb 350 TA SP3 single plane intake and a roller cam matched to higher compression the N/A numbers would be much better with everything else the same. So built to run naturally aspirated(N/A) with the parts available now, a sbb 370 stroker would run even better than the one in the link without the boost AND for less $ than a sbc 383 "crate" engine. Engine building isn't that hard to do or to learn how to do. It is a very good way to learn how to maintain and fix the car you own. One of the parts of the hobby that is WAY more expensive if you farm that kind of work out rather learning how to do it yourself. If you're interested in learning to build your own sbb engine I would be happy to help as much as I can from as far away as I probably am from you.(not sure where PNW is?)
Not as easy as you would think without a donor car to get the needed parts from to bolt the Nailhead in. Also IIRC the fuel line needs to be re-located to the other side as well as the battery. The radiator has the inlet and outlet on the opposite sides as the small block radiator, the fan shroud would also be different and so on....... Probably would be easier to swap in a 455 than a Nailhead with a sbb coming out of it because of how similar the hook ups are between the 2.
Welcome from LA. Those are beautiful cars. For some more muscle you can go for a 430 or a 455. They can be had with a th400 and if you gear the rear rigjt you won't really need a 4 speed. If you really want a 4 speed. Search " 4l80e" in the search bar and see how members are using the 4l80e with the BBB
Appreciate the warm welcome and thoughts on all this. I was researching nailheads this morning and got kinda excited about that possibility, they would appear to be durable and the cool factor is definitely there as well. Fuel lines are easy to re route and as for the radiator..just flip it around ? Do the motor mounts line up? It will probably be awhile before I start this, I've got a suspension and steering upgrade to fimish up in my truck then a rear main to address if I'm going to drive my Blazer this summer. I'm pretty excited about this Lesabre so I will be reading up on stuff in the meantime and checking back in pretty regularly with questions I'm sure. Without having run any $numbers yet I'm thinking boring and stroking the 300 I've already got might be the most effective way to go with this. Thanks again. Oh!...and PNW is pacific north west. Western Washington and NW Oregon area.
I might be able to get a rotating assembly together for you if you're interested, but you ARE way to far away from me to stop by and help. The north left coast to SE Michigan would be quite the drive to stop by for a couple hours and then have to drive back!
Looking on TA performaces web sight I don't see any rover heads for a 300. Do I understand correctly that the rover intake manifold they offer will work on a 300 if I use a spacer to pick it up off the heads? Will it work on the stock heads? I'm weighing the option of figuering out a TBI system, HEI and dual exhaust in front of a 4 speed auto and see how that treats me. It's easy and cheap to dream and I might be starting to dream about big blocks. Could be I'll hold out awhile and spend my money there...who knows. Alot to consider.
Just a stock 401 or 425 should give the first big nice "oomp" factor. It's got alot of low end torque to get that heavy car going of the bat, and the 65 and 66's have a SP400.."not if it's a Skylark GS, then it's still a SP300" Start with just dual exhaust and you will be very happy and "if" later you can play with other upgrades. Nailhead's, yup are durable, parts are swapable between most of them and pretty easy to work on. 300's just don't have enough cubes and you will most likely run into fitting problems and have to fabricate a bunch of pieces to fit the new heads and after all that no low end power. Just my opinion that its easier to drop in some bigger cubes all at one shot.. I would think the part's cars are 65-66 Wildcat, Electra, and Lesabre with the 401 option. Not sure about 63-64's, at least not the tranny.
The big question is how much trouble will it be to get a nailhead working in this car. I'm pretty handy but I am definitely an amatuer at this type of thing, not much of a fabricator. Might be easier, though not near as cool, to drop in a more conventional big block. I bet a 350 sbb would drop right in, but if I'm dropping for a new motor might as well go big. Trucks, motors and guns, you'll never wish you had a smaller one.
A 401/425 Nailhead would be great in that car, but would be a PITA as far as an engine swap would go unless you get the entire parts car close to the year of your car with the engine and trans in it. The TA Rover heads are in the online downloadable catalog on page 13. If you do a sbb 300 stroker, you could get 370 cubes out of it, maybe even a bit more or a little less depending how the block sonic test goes. I have a sbc 383 stroker in my '65 full size 2 door Chevy Impala with a 700R4(1st gear pulls like a freight train even with the 3.07:1 rear gear in it!) behind it that runs great in that car! A sbb stroker would yield similar results with the right parts. The sbb 350 can be stroked as well to get similar cubic inches would be a super simple swap. Similar results can be had with 3.55:1 rear gears behind a 200R4 as I got with the 700R4 with the 3.07:1 rear gears. If you want more cubes than a small block stroker then a BBB would be the easiest swap to do because most of the hookups are closer to the sbb than a Nailhead engine would be, just need the frame pads and mounts from a '68 LeSabre IIRC the '68 wildcat has the same frame that came with a BBB.(you can probably put a parts wanted ad here and find a set pretty quick?) You can even use your sbb radiator, just have it re-cored with 3 or 4 rows instead of the probably 2 that it has now. Get the '68 BBB fan shroud or install electric fan with shroud, '68 BBB radiator hoses and basically done. Just keep in mind that the BBB will be WAY more thirsty that a sbb stroker if that even matters to you? Your sbb under hood wire harness will hook up to a BBB WAY better than it would to a Nailhead engine! Distributor is in the rear of the Nailhead, and both the sbb and BBB have theirs up front. The starter is on the opposite side as well along with the battery for the Nailhead vs the sbb/BBB! It would be a wiring nightmare to swap in a Nailhead if you go that route without a complete donor car.(ask me how I know)
For a nailhead swap, at a minimum you are looking at the following. Front to rear. Radiator, shroud, supports/top plate, hoses, and tranny cooling lines. Battery tray brackets, to relocate the battery and cables. (maybe) Relocate the horns. Correct fan and spacer, I recommend the four blade fan, or proper working clutch fan. Either fuel line run front to rear, or fabricate and properly secure a crossover line. Frame pads. Engine wire harness mods. Exhaust manifolds. Nailhead pattern transmission or correct adapter plate. Shift linkage. May need to move transmission cross-member. May need to replace front yoke on drive shaft. May need to lengthen/shorten driveshaft. Exhaust system. May be some things overlooked. If so, others will jump in. I put a complete drive-line in a 1964 Skylark from 300/ST300 to Nailhead/T-10 and rounding up all the parts before you start will help more than you know. If you have to stop progress every-time you find you need another part, your project may stall and be listed on Craigslist, (and here...). It is not a difficult or complicated, project, just involved and complex. And the limits other than finding all the parts are your wallet and your ability to do the work, or find someone who knows what they are doing to assist you. But nailheads are a love affair. Good luck if you choose to go that route.
Yup, if you can find a complete Nailhead donor car and a good motor, the cool factor and very decent power wins. Thinking now a BBB swap is the way to go as like everyone mentioned the basic setup is similar to the SBB. Bazooka, do you have a decent budget or need time to get things going?
Ha! I like your style Trunkmonkey, it's not difficult or complicated but it is involved and complex. When you put it like that...Lets roll! I'm now in the market for a nailhead donor car, lets make it a 4 speed manual while I'm at it. I do like to sort my own gears. Seriously, alot of good information in all that, regardless of what I end up doing I'm learning alot about Buicks in general. And I thought a Buick was just a different shaped Chevy all these years. Always something new to learn. On the spectrum of practical to flat out crazy I got it figured like this 1. Ignition, carburator,exhaust upgrade and an overdrive transmisdion on the solid 300 thats I already have. 2. Bore and stroke the 300 I have. 3. Put in a sbb 350 (probably on the same level as item 2) 4. Conventional big block 5. Nailhead big block ...wait for it...abosolute insanity... 6. Leave it stock As far as money and time, money is relative. Any kind of a "build" will be 5k easy on the low end, and that wouldn't be much of a build judging by TA performances catalog. I'll throw money at it till it's done, I give up, or I go broke I guess. Time is not an issue, I've got quite a bit of cosmetic stuff I can do to get it ready to paint and that will be more time than money, after that I can drive it with what I got while I put together the pieces for the new motor. If I went the nailhead route with a donor car I'd need to wait till I get a shop built. Bit more "involved and complex" than I want to tackle in the driveway. And really, if the donor car was a manual, I'd get a clutch hung. That would be awesome! Thanks again, I am enjoying this.
If you opt for #6, some good driveway mods would be to power time the distributor, ditch the st300 for a 200R4 and a set of good rear gears to match the 200R4. With the 200R4 you want at least a 3.42:1 rear gear so you can shift into overdrive around 45 mph without lugging the engine down. If you already have at least a 2.93:1 to 3.31:1 rear gear, the 700R4 would be a great swap because you wouldn't have to change the rear gears. BUT, the drive shaft would need to be shortened and an adapter to bolt that trans to the sbb would be needed. Both the adapter and driveshaft shortening would cost around the amount for a set of new rear gears not including the cost for installation if you pay to have that done. The sbb 300 is a great torquey little engine for having so few cubes. The st300 is an ok trans once the car starts moving but not so much from a dead start, especially with a small cubic inch engine. Add some more modern gearing to that little guy and the new gearing for that little mighty mouse motor would wake up the fun factor by 10 fold!
I'm Back, Starting to get over that new love, endorphin rush phase of this relationship (emotional attachments to my cars is a trait I got from my mom) and developing a more practical plan. Google imaging 425 nailheads got me a little worked up there for a minute! That is about the sexiest motor I've ever seen. So I'm just going to get the heads worked on this 300, go to a 4 barrel and throw on some headers, if I can find them, and upgrade the transmission and possibly rear end. At this point I have no idea of how this car is geared. My question today is headers...Will headers for a 215 bolt up to this 300? Once I get the car painted and put back together I will start dreaming and scheming on a nailhead for it! Thanks again for all your help.
