Firefighters; contractors; home owners

Discussion in 'The Bench' started by Screaming Snail, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Screaming Snail

    Screaming Snail Well-Known Member

    This info is from a local TV station:
    A form of insulation was used that contained asbestos. (The EPA was to issue a warning, but did not.) It is called vermiculite (and was also used in packaging materials), sold under a trade name of : Zonolite.
    THe following link has more information; at the bottom of the page there are three more links to further information including an EPA fact sheet with a picture of vermiculite attic insulation.

    http://www.newsnet5.com/theinvestigator/1989422/detail.html
     
  2. Screaming Snail

    Screaming Snail Well-Known Member

    Cleveland, Ohio Ch. 5 news is going to have another spot on this subject tonight on the 11:00 PM news.
     
  3. Smartin

    Smartin Guest

    That stuff is used in some potting soil. The Little foam balls...I think.
     
  4. rtabish

    rtabish Well-Known Member

    you guys back east have probably never heard of this, but the stuff you are talking about was mined here in montana in a small town in the northwest corner called Libby. a company called W.R.Grace had the vermiculite mine here till a few years ago when the bottom fell out of the asbestos market due to the fact that asbestos was found to be a BIG cause of cancer and lung problems. anyway, the company decided to pull out of libby, abandoning it mining operation and all its employees. but not till the epa stepped in and started to check out the mine property. pretty soon it was found that a huge percentage of the former workers and many other town folk had died or were dieing from asbestosis [a serious lung disorder] or other asbestos related ailments, and it could all be traced directly to this mine or contact with the fill material taken from the mine site and used around the town in everything from the highschool and grade school play grounds to peoples front yards. Grace tried to beat the rap with a huge lawsuit, fileing for bankruptcy, and any of a number of other corperate tricks including chumming up with our "beloved" governor [ she is a self-proclaimed 'lap dog of industry' and the object of a local bumper sticker saying "my governor is stupider than your governor!"]. a lot of people think that montana is a land of pure water, air, and trees but the truth is we are the home of the biggest superfund site in the U.S. [just upstream from missoula, where i live], verious and sundry industrial disasters, strip mining, clear-cutting, agriculteral and mining polution killing whole river systems, and a whole town whose future is now very uncertain partly due to the whole asbestos thing. and you are just now hearing about asbestos? sorry, didn't mean to drag on.
     
  5. Bruce Hunter

    Bruce Hunter Well-Known Member

    Bummer!

    I watched the news program last night, and saw the bit on Libby MT. what bums me out is now wondering how much of that suff I inhaled during the last twenty plus years as a carpenter,contractor. I can remember sweeping bags and bags of that stuff up after pulling down ceilings and walls during the years I worked as a carpenter who specailized in remodel work! and I live in a small "old" town, Iv'e been in many,many Homes in our area that I know have this insulation.
    We were told it was harmless insulation, yikes! I'm in good health now But....?? I better start looking for my favorite GSX now while I may be able to enjoy it!
    Nothing like being lied to:af:

    "where's Erin Brokovich when you need her":puzzled:

    Bruce
     
  6. Screaming Snail

    Screaming Snail Well-Known Member

    Bruce:
    A lot of the problems don't show up for up for as long as thirty years. Don't want to scare anyone, but just to make as many people aware of this as possible. "Way back when" worm farming was popular, I saw its being used to hold moisture for the worms. So a lot of people may have been exposed ot it. I once read a report of a child who had been exposed to asbestos while "helping" his father change brake shoes. Unfortunately the child died from the exposure, but some can work in it without any adverse effects.
    Asbestos was used in the manufacturing process for shingles, so older homes may have it there as well as in insulation.
    Also, the Federal EPA also has a map of all of the known toxic waste dumps. I don't have the link, but I will try to find it.
     
  7. Bruce Hunter

    Bruce Hunter Well-Known Member

    Steve,
    Your starting to scare me! insulation, brakes,roofing materials, Oh and don't forget installing new windows into a home with asbestos siding! ( I can see the dust coming off that circular saw now) So I hope it will not effect me down the road, man, I must have bathed in that stuff over the years?:jd:






    Bruce
     
  8. Buick_350X

    Buick_350X Guest

    Sure glad I dont like vermiculite. I never liked how it felt or acted. Now I do use peterlite and peat moss as a mix for plants. Allot of people like using a vermiculite peterlite mix but I don't. but Scotts is a big supplier of both products.

    where can you find a crooked lawyer when you need one???

    -Matt
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2003
  9. Buick_350X

    Buick_350X Guest

    vermiculite is the gold stuff thats kinda like layers. The round white balls of stuff is peterlite [bad spellin]

    -Matt
     
  10. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    Bruce you are old enough ( and Matt perhaps is not) to remember the agonizing circumstances surrounding the death of Steve McQueen. Steve died from mesothelioma which is a rare form of cancer that attacks usually the pleura of the lungs. This cancer is almost exclusively associated with a particular dimensioned asbestos fiber that is mined at certain locations. The condition is always terminal. One does not linger like many who have asbestosis which is a fibrosis of the parencyma of the lungs. Of interest, is that Steve had no known exposure to any asbestos products except his fire suit for racing and perhaps working on brakes.

    I have handled many such cases myself for just average working people exposed and who developed the disease. I remember one mechanic whose only known exposure was brake work. He died during the pendecy of his case and I carried on for the widow.

    Spouses have developed the disease from an exposure to the husband's laundry which was contaminated. It is a really serious health hazard with a latency period of 10-15 years after exposure to the mineral which is what asbestos is.

    I remember a case I handled 20 years ago in which the company had made ironing board covers and my client cut out the pattern with electric sissors. The company put on all kinds of testimony from former managers that they never used asbestos in their ironing board covers. My client who could not read or write had severe asbestosis and swore they did but the company had gone out of business and had destroyed its records. I started calling every former person I could get a lead on that worked there. One night I called an older lady who said she worked there and I asked her the question about asbestosis. She she was sure about it. I asked what made her so sure? She laughed and said "Son I still got some the those ironing board covers still in
    the plastic package". So I hop in the car and drive 150 miles to her house and buy two covers still in the company package. On the front it proudly advertised in big letters "Made with Asbestos" and had a big circle around that. The train suddenly stopped as I slid the package out of my brief case during cross examintion of the the defense witnesses-- if you know what I mean.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2003
  11. Smartin

    Smartin Guest

    Matt,

    Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the wrong impression. :Dou:
     
  12. rtabish

    rtabish Well-Known Member

    man, to come home from work and hug your kids and wife, not knowing it will kill them! that is one of the most insidious and evil things on earth. and we have known about the effects for YEARS! of course, we have known about cigarettes, alchohol, lead paint,exhaust fumes,radiation....... the list goes on and on. we are definately a primitive species compaired to what we think of our selves, to let this all go on. just put me on the next ship to mars, i dont know if i like my neighborhood any more. :(
     
  13. Buick_350X

    Buick_350X Guest

    No prob. I think peterlite is similar too rockwool cubes used in hydro farms. Made out of fiberglass.

    Peterlite and peat moss is great for any houseplants or garden cause of all the air it hold. The down side is you must plug off any drain holes and watch your watering better. Because the soil holds so much air the water will drain right out and never soak in. but it works great. Cold as heck and now winter has showed up late in Feb and I got tomatoes in the front window.

    -Matt
     
  14. YellowLark

    YellowLark Well-Known Member

    Regarding Steve McQueen, I recall reading right after his death that he had worked loading asbestos when a teenager. The firm he worked at and the type of asbestos product were also mentioned in that news article.
     
  15. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    Harry :

    Steve McQueen died over 20 years ago. Although I was practicing when he died in 1980 and was handling asbestos related litigation, what I know about his exposure is what has been reported since then. I have not read about Steve in a long time but went on the internet to refresh my memory. I read just a pecentage of a large search and saw the following explanations for has mesothelioma and death:

    Wearing asbestos lined racers suits;

    Doing his own motorcycle brake work; and

    A possibility he may have been exposed to asbestos building insulation while he was in the Marines( he enlisted at age 17).


    It could be the latter is what you remember or it could be there are other accounts out there. I think the point is for those on the Board who do mechanic work, race, who come in contact with old insulation and so forth beware and use the correct NIOSH approved mask if there is any doubt . Even an incidental exposure can be serious.
     
  16. Dale

    Dale Sweepspear

    It's in my neighborhood

    The WR Grace plant was located in Northeast Mpls., Just a couple of miles from my home.
    For decades kid's that lived in the immediate area played in the large piles of vermiculite in back of the plant.
    WR Grace had a waste pile that was free to the public so, anyone who needed some could just come over and shovel it into their trunk or back of the station wagon.
    While the kids occupied themselve by burying each other in it.
    Thousands of cases of asbestos related cancers popping up in northeast Mpls.
    This stuff is everywhere!
    It's even in the attic of my house! :shock:
    Back then though, who knew?:Do No:
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2003
  17. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    Re: It's in my neighborhood



    The effects have been widely known and discussed in scientific and medical literature since the 30s. I would suspect someone has obtained docs showing Grace has through key personnel have known for a long time. Plus they are a duty to know the adverse consequences of their by products when the dangers were widely known in the scientic community.

    Just another interesting piece of trivia on the topic. Other well known people have passed on from mesothelioma --a peculiar cancer associated with asbestos fibers of a certain aspect ratio. The late Admiral Zumwalt of the US Navy for example. Life ends after diagnosis usually within a year.

    For those with asbestosis another story often unfolds. Because the lungs have such a wonderful resrve of capacity and the latency period many have it without symptoms becoming apparent for a long time. I have seen many plant-- wide screenings of as yet nonsymptomatic individuals which by X ray and Cat Scans were read postive by a B reader.

    Gee I am scaring myself! Does anybody know the last year of manufacture of asbestos brake linings? I am going to guess around 1970. I suspect many of our Buicks came with them or were retrofitted with replacement linings that contained asbestos.


    Maybe Pinion Angle Dave who worked in the industry back then remembers?
     
  18. Dale

    Dale Sweepspear

    Re: Re: It's in my neighborhood

    What I have been reading in the local papers here is that the amount of asbestos in this vermiculite was thought to be such a small trace amount that no one really gave it any thought until a pattern of people afflicted with mesothelioma showed up.
    Heres a link to a news article.
    Star Tribune Article
     
  19. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    Dale :

    The Star link does not show. As for the small amount of fiber count amount versus risk argument many medical experts would say there is no safe level for fibers of the type that cause mesothelioma. The nature of those fibers being short and straight is such that when ingested they are not only non degradable by the body but they migrate through the parenchyma to the outer membranes covering the lungs and/ or heart. It is in these membranes that these fibers serve as the genesis for this 100% fatal form of cancer that terminates you within a year of so of initial diagnosis.
     
  20. rtabish

    rtabish Well-Known Member

    do any of you know of any other companies besides w.r.grace involved with this issue? i have only heard the stories from our own perspective in montana. it was reported that this affected households and industrial sites around the country, but there must be more than grace involved in the sales and distribution.
     

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