Finally got it to the track

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by babyblue 69, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    well thats just silly .. unless running a stock-appearing race.

    Drop Base, with a K&N 3" filter and filter top .. you will have to cut a new hold-down rod though as the stock one sticks up too close to the hood.

    .. Threaded rod from Home Depot cut so just enough poking out the hole is proud to get a wing nut on
     
  2. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Runs like it's making 450 HP because it is..

    In 1998/99 I built a full frame off GSX, and that car got the second version of my 500 HP Iron street motor. Made 521 with a 1000 TQ, ported 70 heads, 10-1 TRW shortblock. TA 290-08H cam, performer intake, my electric pump street fuel system.

    3.55 gear (12 bolt) and my 3200/1800 VP setup.

    Ran that car at Norwalk Buick Raceday in 2000.. on my way to deliver it to the customer in Florida.

    Out of the box, in full street trim, with just a set of 26x8 Micky ET streets.. factory air cleaner in place, sealed up.

    12.59 et... much better 60' than you due to converter and good hook.

    Took the air cleaner and installed it in the trunk..

    12.03 .. I don't recall the exact MPH, but there was 3 or 4 MPH in between the passes, with/without air cleaner.

    Car was 4150lbs with me in it.

    Board member Gord Martin owns this car today, and it's out in Phoenix, you might run into it.. White 70 GSX.

    Years Later, I actually tested a GS air cleaner on the dyno.. it doesn't affect torque much at lower rpm, but above 4500 rpm it kills HP.

    40 ish HP loss on a 515Hp motor... and just flipping the lid on the air cleaner is all that is required to bring it all back.

    1 question..

    Describe your fuel system to us.

    And my advice is install the 3200 stall converter in the car, as long as it's not some 11" thing.. Should be a small diameter one... and flip the lid on that air cleaner.

    JW
     
  3. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member

    I have Ta's Street Strip pump on the car other than that the system is all stock. The convertor is a monster 3200 10inch stall convertor. I never would have though to lose the air cleaner, but i will I have a k&N round element that I bought when i thought I was going to run the SP1. Ill put that on the car. Hopefully next weekend I get a chance to see Mr. Martin at the buick track day. 40 horse loss I would have never thought that.

    Is there something else I should be doing with the fuel system?
     
  4. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member

    electric waterpump, no power steering pump
    I don't remember if there was an alternator hooked up I don't think so
    And it was run with my long tube headers. Ive been toying with the idea of the electric pump, but it cools great now, so I haven't talked myself into scraping the flex fan. Im not against running an electric pump either but I drive my car a lot and here in Arizona I don't know how well they hold up. I am also considering doing three inch exhaust, x pipe with open chamber mufflers. Will that be worth the money. I have 2.5 inch and regular flow master on the car now.
     
  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482


    I would use a vacuum/pressure gauge and temporarily T it into the system between the pump and the carb. You can use a long hose and tape it to the windshield.. Then go out in the desert and run it hard thru the gears a few times, make sure the pressure stays up.

    JW
     
  6. Bluzilla

    Bluzilla a.k.a. "THE DOCTOR"

    I would take in all the good air cleaner advice. We run the Corvette L88 style drop umbrella base on everything that we can fit it on. It allows the most hood clearance of any base we have ever seen and has the vent tube that can be removed if necessary. We also try to stuff the tallest open filter element that fits under the hood. Back in 1992 I used the original version of a B4B, 1" Moroso spacer, L88 Base, Holley 850, 4" filter element, and Corvette lid without any hood issue. But the 68-69's may be different. I believe when I switched to the SP1 that it still had clearance. Definitely noticed gains over 4000+ rpm as JW mentioned.

    Larry


    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Robs455

    Robs455 Well-Known Member

    I use this setup now, a cheap 14" one inch dop base combined with a K&N and filter no clearance problems with the SP1.
    But you can also use your current setup and on the track remove the ram air lid and put the breathable lid on.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member

    I have one just like that that I bought to run with the SPI that I will put on the car. How much of a difference is it from a 3200 stall to a 3500 stall? I have the monster 3200 stall that I never used, but when my motor was being built Rick said to have road runner convertors here in town build me one, and Mike over at TA said the same thing. Hughes was not high on there list. Anybody ever run a monster convertor?
     
  9. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You would be comparing apples to rutabagas to only look at the intended speeds.
    As an extreme example, I could take a "1500" converter and smash the fins down with a hammer and get it to 3200 rpm, and you could still not compare the two going down the track.
     
  10. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member


    So all things being equal does the 300 rpm more stall speed make that much of a difference. The reason i asked is I have the 3200 monster convertor in my garage, but if I'm going to have one built why not 3500. Im trying to gain some understanding of how the extra stall speed helps or hurts. Mind you this is mostly a street driven car. I know it is supposed to help the 60 ft time which is what I'm looking to for, but I don't want to get too crazy where I can't drive it across town if I want
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    But things aren't equal, not even close. Just because a manufacturer claims a stall speed of xxxx doesn't mean that's where it will stall in your car. Even if they did stall the same, they might feel markedly different on the street and produce different results at the track. Being that your car is a street car, you'll want a converter built specifically for your car. It costs more to have one built, but the results will be much better. A converter that is too loose will get old fast driving on the street even though it might do well at the track. When you have the right converter, you hardly know it until you step on it. Converter efficiency is really important on the street.

    I would give Jim Weise a call,

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?147066-TSP-9-5-quot-Street-Strip-converters-Lifetime-warrantee!
     
  12. Bluzilla

    Bluzilla a.k.a. "THE DOCTOR"

    I started out with an ATI Tree-Master 10" that flashed at about 3500rpm and was built with all the good stuff. When my car's combination became more potent and I started seeing 50% Street/50% Track use I had ATI build me an 8" Tree-Master Converter. At first their was concern about that small of a converter being too loose, as Larry mentioned can be annoying on the street. Eventually they built the unit and it ended up flashing at about 3900rpm. My 60ft dropped from the 1.50's to 1.40's. I like both converters on the street as well as the track. They really hit the nail on the head with the 8" because its very well mannered on the street. The 8" lets me stage my car at about 2000rpm comfortably without rolling out,... which helps as my car is a fully automatic TH400. I don't believe ATI offered a 9" back then. I feel its all about how the converter was built for your combination VS just going by an advertised "Stall Speed". I would talk with your converter builder with all your concerns. They should be able to answer all your converter related questions,.... if not, find a another converter Co.

    Larry
     
  13. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member


    I know enough about what I dont know to not pretend that I have any idea about this issue. What exactly would I need to be able to tell Jim to get the convertor that is right for my Car? I have the dyno sheet, and now have some track slips. I have no issue buying a convertor from Jim, in fact I would love to get one especially if I can get it quickly. What other info do I need to be able to tell him before I call. Anybody know what the turn around time is?
     
  14. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The dyno sheet, car weight, and gearing are the main things. I would wait until I got the engine running right first. You should be in the mid 12s easy at more like 106-108 MPH. That is where I was with the same heads, a 118 cam, and Performer intake/QJ.
     
  15. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member

    I ordered a convertor from Jim this morning hopefully it makes it to me before next Saturday. Incase it doest I have already put the stock air cleaner in the garage in exchange for the 14 inch round element, and the sub box is out of the car. Im hoping those changes will get me into the 12's and get my 60 foot down. Ill keep you guys posted
     
  16. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member

    So i got the convertor from Jim in the car, 3 inch from the headers back with xpipe, ran the care three times a couple weeks ago. First two passes were without the air cleaner at all car went 13.73@ 85mph and shut off at the 1000 foot mark, I put it in neutral and got it off the track. Nothing was obviously wrong to me it fired right up, and after about thirty minutes looking the car over I went back up for a second pass the car went 13.785@ 85.4MPH at about mid track this time it started to act like it was going to shut off again i feathered the throttle to keep it running. Got back to the pit again no obvious problem. This time I decided to put the stock air cleaner back on the car as the convertor and exhaust were the only other changes to the car and I knew those two things couldn't be the problem. Get the car to the line and as i was getting on the convertor the care shut off. I quickly put it in neutral to get it started and it left harder than it had all night. It stumbled a little about 1000 foot, but it went 13.219 @93MPH? Now this is the second time I've had the car to the track, and the first time it went faster than it did with all of these changes at 13.11 104 MPH. I feel like the nosing over is in the carb 850 quickfuel so I took it off had it built, I also installed a electric pump and took the stage 1 pump from ta off the car, and i also installed electric fans, because the last pass the car threw the belts off at the end of the track. The next test and tune day here in Az is June 9th, its going to be hot as hell out but I have to see if any of these changes are going to make a difference. Im fresh out of ideas, and i know this car should be way faster than these time slips say it is. What am I missing?

    60 foots were 1.833, 1.847, and 1.779 on the 13.2 pass
     
  17. standup 69

    standup 69 standup69

    so you put the electric pump on after these suspect passes? sure sounds like its fuel starved
     
  18. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

    Well, nobody has chimed in with the old DA calculator. The first question should be what track, then what day and what time? http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density...5&day=7&year=2017&getweather=Get+Weather+Data

    If the track is in AZ when the DA is figured you will be over 1000' feet and maybe 3000' so that is a major factor in why you car would not go faster originally. Going by what us near sea level guys run always requires the DA to be factored in. So you may be a few tents and a few mph faster when corrected to sea level.

    As far as your latest adventure it sounds like fuel delivery problems so something got screwed up. How much gas did you have in the car? Fuel slosh can cause problems especially coming out of the burnout box up to the starting line. It looks like the converter dropped the 60' foot time nicely. Now if you can get the fuel problem sorted out 12's will come around.

    Oh yes, check your timing. Maybe that got screwed up when you were working on it. I always check my timing fist thing when I get to the track. I keep adding things. Did you check the carb to make sure you are getting full throttle. It sounds like you are only using half the carb.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  19. babyblue 69

    babyblue 69 Well-Known Member

    Electric pump, and fans, and had the carb rebuilt. So Im hoping June 9th to see this thing get 12 something. I would hate to juts keep spending money and going backwards

    The track was wild horse pass race way may 12th 7:40 at night 1st pass
     
  20. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

    Funny that it is not listed on the DA site but Chandler, AZ is 1125' above sealevel and the DA only gets worse this time of year so you're in the performance hole, so to speak, already. Obviously something was really amiss the last time you were at the track so if that probable fuel problem is fixed you should be good. Have you tried it out on a street test?

    Were you at the same track in December because those are the times you use as a reference. The recent performance at the track you throw out. They are worthless other than you hopfully have solved the problem since then. The big news is the way better 60' time so that in itself will get you in the 12's once the mph comes back. The exhaust should not have caused the mph to go down and the converter won't cause such a major decrease in mph unless it is exploding inside but you'll barely be driving it by that time.
     

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