Fact check please!

Discussion in 'Ebay Parts and Cars' started by Nailhead, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. Mike Trom

    Mike Trom Blah, Blah, Blah

    Wouldn't a GM master part book list the part numbers and application? I don't have one of those but they do exist don't they?
    I doubt it would tell you the fat grip/thin grip difference but it should tell you what part number was for what year.
    Hard to believe that GM made one specific handle for '68 "A" bodies and it was not used anywhere else on the GM line. Strange to hear the 68/69 were even different.
     
  2. buick64203

    buick64203 Right wing conservative Staff Member

    I have a few printings of the parts and illustration books. The earliest printing I have is March 1973. Parts books show the part number that will fit and function. It doesn't necessarily show what part is correct. For example, we know there is a difference between a 70 and a 71/72 core supports. Yet the Mater parts book for 73 only shows one part number- the 71/72 style. Same for door handles- only one number is listed for 70-72 door handles. Duane wrote a great article about this called NOS Parts- the agony continues.

    So if you went into a Buick dealer in 1970 and ordered door handles for your 70 Buick, you would likely get the "fat" handles. If you went there a year later after the factory made the change, you would get the 71/72 style because that the current part and it fits the earlier model. Buick didn't care if the part was correct, just as long as it fit
     
    mrolds69 likes this.
  3. buick64203

    buick64203 Right wing conservative Staff Member

    Just for giggles I looked up the 68/ 69 handles. They're under 10.527. They list them as 68/69 all. I don't doubt there is a difference between them on the production versions, but the parts book says a 69 handle will work on a 68
     
  4. mrolds69

    mrolds69 Still restoring!!!

    This would be a challenging project. First, as Duane said, you need to find original handles, off original years and record the numbers inside. Once you understand what a fat handle looks like, they are easy to spot. Obviously, if you held the two together, you could easily feel the differene. The 70 stage link to ebay yesterday somebody posted, I noticed that car had a fat handle right away. I noticed it because when people claim low miles or unmolested, that's what I look for, stuff like that. I also noticed on that same car the wrong wiring gutter and other things. So, as far as I can recall, there is no part number inside the 70 fat handle. There are a few digits, I think. Most handles have the full part number inside. That's a huge problem to ID them. Handle fitment over the years and through GM lines is crazy. Some 2 door and 4 door cars use different handles, some don't. Weirdly, a 1964 4 door Nova rear handle may be the same as a 1970 Skylark front 2 door handle. The same goes with hinges for 2 + 4 door cars. Have appt...I'll get back...
     
  5. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    I like the idea of another thread with descriptive info, once this is sorted out.
     
  6. mrolds69

    mrolds69 Still restoring!!!

    There's no Master book for stuff like this, Mike. You would need all the assembly manuals and all GM's supercession books, AND all the parts/body books BOPC of varying years, and maybe truck + 'vette books, too. Some early 'vette handles fit some A bodies and vice-versa. Then there's the pushbutton problem, there are maybe 6 different types, long, short, T, bent, front, rear...a lot. You can have the right handle and the wrong push button, and the door will work like crap. Rarely can you just toss any handles on a car and have them work well. When they first started consolidating numbers and re-pro'ing handles it was like one handle fits 1960-72 everything. They would say 60-64, then 65-67, then 68 to 72, but it was mostly the same handles and buttons with only a few different. Now there are a ton of companies making them with Trim Parts being the best that I know of, with pretty correct buttons, and I think they repro the fat deals now. THe chrome on them is really nice, way, way better than NOS. But they have several levels of quality and there's a lot of old stock kicking around Ebay, and others. If you buy used handles you have to know what you are getting, what car they came off, if you want the exact right handles. Sellers at swap meets and ebay will tell you what you want to hear. People go into a boneyard and grab shiny un-pitted handles and re-sell them. An Impala or Tempest handle will fit your Skylark. Right handle? Who knows? Like Jason, I have several printings of parts books and definitely earlier than he mentioned. I'll look and see what I can find.
     
  7. Mike Trom

    Mike Trom Blah, Blah, Blah

    I have a 1968 GM Chassis and Body Part book, effective May 1968
    For 1968 Skylarks group 10.527 -- 9712350 (L) and 9712351 (R)
    Skylarks even had unique gaskets, all of the other body styles used the same gasket.

    All other body styles have different part numbers.

    This book is '68 only.
     
  8. Buicksky

    Buicksky Silver Level contributor

    Duane , Thanks for your info.

    Wow! sorry I asked. I find it hard to believe all are 69's even got the same handles when they came from different plants at different manufacture dates during GM strikes.

    I have to think they never held up the line for outer door handles, if they had another that bolted to the door. I am going to lookat some original 69 handles and see I can find any numbers to ID by.
     
  9. Duane

    Duane Member

    What the GM Engineers were most often trying to do was to have the top of the door handles lay parallel to the ground, although some years did not.

    The main differences in the handles was due to the angles of the door skins. If you hold the handles in front of you and look at the rearward facing side then you will see how the angle changed where the handle meets the door skin.

    There are a ton of handles that would interchange. Back in the day the most common NOS handle available was for a Nova (if you looked up the part number on the box) but it fit perfectly on the 70-72 Buicks, so that's what we used.

    "Wow! sorry I asked"
    Welcome to my world. Each piece of info either I or someone else gives out on the board usually has some hidden "research time" behind it. That's the part that no one sees, but many of us have a problem with not knowing the answers to certain questions so we take the time to find them.
    Duane

    PS. Assembly manuals will not have any information about this. Fisher body installed the doors/handles when they were building/painting the shell. Final assembly did not touch these parts as the shell was basically finished, except for dash and front seat components when it got there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    1972Mach1 likes this.
  10. Duane

    Duane Member

    OK, I will start you off.
    The first 2 pics are of the door handles that came off my 69 Oshawa car. The doors were date coded correct to the car, had original paint and body side stripes, and the authenticity of these doors/handles is without question.

    The first pic shows the top view while the second pic is a side view of the rearward facing surface. You can see how "angled" the mating surface between the door handle and the door skin is.
    The part numbers for these door handles are L-712351, R-971235. (These are the numbers cast into the arts, and not some number you would order.)


    Next is 2 pics of a set I have labeled 70-72 Buick. These are of the same 2 views and you can see how the mating surface is basically 90 degrees for the top of the handle. The one has number 5716871 cast into it and the other has "70" cast into it. (I am assuming these are off a 70 car due to the number cast into it.)


    The last pic is of a door handle that I took off a 70-72 El Camino. If you look at the angle of the mating surface it looks identical to the 69 Buick door handles I pictured above.

    Again, the angles of the door skins determined which door handles GM used. There are also door handles out there with angles between the ones I have shown, so be careful with what you buy.

    So I gave you a start, it's up to you guys to continue this.

    Duane


    69 Buick L and R-1.JPG 69 Buick L and R-2.JPG 70-72 Buick L and R-1.JPG 70-72 Buick L and R-2.JPG 70-72 El Camino L.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  11. mrolds69

    mrolds69 Still restoring!!!

    Duane, that's true the assembly manuals would be NG because it was a body thing, I forgot about that. The difference between you and I is that I really don't record any info or specifically tag parts. I DO do a lot of research, but once I find my answer(s), that's it. Mostly because early on I wasn't networking with others, I was kind of a lone wolf restorer. I thought I was obsessive 'til I came over here. Now I know there are way sicker puppies than myself!
    I do remember that the door handles for the 70, or door handles supposed to be for the 70 had only a few digits inside. As you said, I know the 70 Skylark application is different but not alone. I'm going to chuck this list out. I wouldn't stake my life on it, I did not compile it. I can see some mistakes in it. I know for a fact this is not a complete list. I actually have a much better list with numbers someplace. It may be at my other house. But I think a lot of this info is right. If nothing else, you can see what I was talking about with the complexity and variation of the aps.
    http://www.angelfire.com/tx/lonestarclassics/body.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  12. Duane

    Duane Member

    Frank,
    The main reason I started labeling parts was because I had too many different kinds of cars. I started by labeling the boxes and when that didn't work I switched over to labeling the parts. At any given time I had at least 3 cars apart at the same time. It just got too confusing.
    Duane
     

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