EZ-EFI 2.0 coming out.

Discussion in 'High Tech for Old Iron' started by Ken Warner, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Any hope for a EZ-EFI 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade? (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0 coming out.)

    Howdy Paul and V-8 Buick early adopters,

    Did you ask by chance if there would be any upgrade paths from EZ-EFI 1.0 to 2.0? From what I've seen on this thread, it seems like if you want the upgrade you would have to buy the whole new system. There doesn't seem to be much from the EZ-EFI 1.0 system that can be reused.

    Am I reading the situation clearly?

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  2. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Any hope for a EZ-EFI 1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade? (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0 coming out.)

    Yep, there is nothing in common between the 1.0 and the 2.0 that I could see and I got to handle them both.
    Because they were obviously different I didn't ask the question. It should be asked anyway just to verify.

    Paul
     
  3. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Will EZ-EFI 1.0 still be sold? (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0 coming out.)

    Howdy Paul and V-8 Buick early adopters,

    Paul, did the FAST folks indicate what their plans were for the original EZ-EFI 1.0 system? In the IT world, an upgrade means the old version is no longer available. However, this new system seems complementary to the original 1.0 version of EZ-EFI and FAST is now getting some competition from other self-learning throttle-body EFI systems.

    Certainly glad to see some development of these systems. Given the hard times this country is going though, spending money on research and development is an expense that companies have cut back on to survive.

    Thanks for sharing what you learned at the PRI trade show Paul! :TU:

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  4. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    So paul, with what you have learned so far would you say this would be a good system for boost?
     
  5. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Hey Sean

    It will not work with boost. See post #19. There are issues between self learning and the many different ways of adding boost to an engine.
    The best way is still port injection with the user at full control of the tuning.

    Paul



    ---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

    I got the feeling that they want want to leave the 1.0 as a less expensive alternative for a user to get into the Self Learning Throttle body EFI systems.

    They didn'y say this but if the 2.0 does well in the market I would think that they would offer the 2.0 throttle body with only 4 injectors without ignition control as a replacement for the 1.0.
    This way a person could upgrade later.
     
  6. regal81455

    regal81455 Well-Known Member

    From what Ive read it appears the 1.0 throttle body will work with the new setup. Just need to get your hands on the ecu, handheld, and harness.
    "The FAST EZ-EFI 2.0 works with either generations throttle body"

    Could be wrong, IDK. :Do No: but Im hoping they offer it that way so I can make the switch, I really want the ignition control above anything else.
     
  7. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    I guess I didn't ask enough questions. It would be a matter of wire harness compatibilty between the 1.0 and 2.0
    I will have to call on that one.

    I counted right at 1000 exhibitors booths at the PRI trade show and we were hustling.

    Paul
     
  8. regal81455

    regal81455 Well-Known Member

    Paul--

    Please keep us updated on this. Im xing my fingers that they take care of us 1.0 guys -- it would steam me pretty bad to have taken this leap just for them to forget about the guys who made it popular in the first place.

    TIA
    Josh
     
  9. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Pickin' your brain, Paul (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0)

    Howdy Paul and V-8 Buick curious about EZ-EFI 2.0 types,

    Do you have any idea why FAST went to this arrangement? It is basically the same trick as the Quadra-Jet. Is the problem that injectors are less efficient at dispensing very small amounts of fuel so you get more control using 4 that are putting out twice as much fuel? This seems puzzling to me because that suggests sequential fuel injection would not work as well when the engine is lightly loaded - is that true?

    Back to my ignorance, but exactly what is the advantage of linking the fuel injection to the spark-plug firing for a throttle-body system? I see the advantage for sequential fuel injection, but it doesn't' seem as helpful when the fuel is being "smeared" across the entire intake manifold. If the injector squirts fuel just before the intake valve is opened, will the fuel mostly travel to that cylinder anyway? I can't visualize what is happening in the intake manifold too well. I would have expected once the engine starts turning, the air flow would be such that the density of air fuel mixture in the intake manifold would be relatively uniform. In that case, a carburetor or EFI system that simply dispenses the required fuel would be good enough.

    Could you learn me on this question? :Do No:

    Thanks for all your pearls of wisdom! :Smarty:

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  10. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Just got off the phone with Randy at F.A.S.T. This pertains to the EZ-EFI 2.0 not to be confused with XFI 2.0

    The handheld unit, control unit, wiring harness and the throttle body are totally different between the EZ-EFI 1.0 and the EZ-EFI 2.0 so there is no compatibility in either direction.

    In contrast the XFI unit (Port Injection) can have its software upgraded online so the 1.0 unit can be upgraded to the 2.0.
    The XFI 2.0 has tons of features over the EZ-EFI including Data Logging.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  11. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Pickin' your brain, Paul (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0)


    Injectors do not have a linear response as you approach the lower pulse width limit typically around 1 msec.

    Its also better to use more of the dynamic range of the injector.
    Example: If a single stage 4 injector 1200 hp system is used on a 400 hp engine, only 1/3 of the dynamic range would be used.
    A 2 stage system with 8 injectors at 1/2 the size would use 2/3 of the dynamic range of the initial 4 injectors
    at light loads until the second 4 are cut in during heavy loads.

    So FAST went to 8 injectors for better control at light engine loads where they cut in the second 4 injectors at a specified duty cycle.
    This also gave the EZ 2.0 system the ability to run on E85 thanks to the increased flow capacity.

    With sequential port injection you size the injectors so you are at 75% to 80% at full load.
    You also have the option of individually tuning each cylinder.

    The fuel control side of the EZ 2.0 and the spark control side are not linked. One side doesn't know the other side exists.
    The purpose of electronic spark control is to allow timing outside of the restrictions of a mechanical advance curve.
    It also allows timing changes on the fly. Try that with mechanical distributor controlled timing.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  12. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Sounding like EZ-EFI 1.0 on steroids (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0)

    Howdy Paul and V-8 Buick EFI ponderers,

    Of course I have a hidden agenda in all these questions. It is my usual fate when it comes to computers and software. Thanks to Murphy, I end up buying something just before a new and improved model comes out. :Dou: So I'm trying to size up EZ-EFI 2.0 for my application, but I have a feeling there isn't that much in this model for my needs.

    Okay, I see the need when you are trying to provide 1000 hp. That's almost twice the range of fuel delivery of the EZ-EFI 1.0 system. But in my case, the EZ-EFI system should be well matched to my engine at 500 hp. So this doesn't seem to be an advantage in my case.

    I suppose though it depends on the intended application of the engine. A problem that my trusty wagon won't have is the extreme transition that drag racing requires of going from idle to WOT as fast as the engine and car can handle. I assume that automakers select fuel injectors for daily-drivers with other criteria in mind like fuel economy. However, if you want to drag race you need the kind of engine response not expected in daily-driving (at least we hope! :3gears: )

    So the electronic spark control isn't providing any improved fuel injection say to improve fuel economy - correct? (me? a hidden agenda? :Brow:) This once more sounds to me like a feature for the racing crowd and will be greatly appreciated. Still, not my cup of tea.

    What I'm taking out of this thread is that EZ-EFI 2.0 is more like EZ-EFI 1.0 put on steroids. There will be lots of performance enthusiasts who will be pleased by these changes, but these improvements don't provide anything for my trusty wagon. I still suspect I'll want to upgrade the EFI system on this engine someday, but this isn't the upgrade for me.

    At least that's how I see it!

    Thanks again Paul for all the useful information. :TU: Sure hope it encourages Buick performance enthusiasts to think outside the carb!

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  13. Ken Warner

    Ken Warner Stand-up Philosopher

    Re: Sounding like EZ-EFI 1.0 on steroids (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0)


    I don't think I would lose any sleep over 1.0 VS 2.0 If you want timing control put a programmable MSD box on like I did. The extra injectors would be nice if you wanted to use E15 or E85 and while you might be losing a bit of efficiency with the 4 big injectors for average driving I doubt you would see much difference (certainly not $2K difference). Besides if you did go to E85 you better make sure your fuel lines are up to the task and be prepared to do more fuel pump swaps as the stuff is ROUGH on pumps. Not to mention you will need more volume with the E85 so your current pump might not even be up to snuff.

    Stick with dino-juice and your EZ 1.0
     
  14. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    If I recall right he lives in California. Won't have to worry about finding E-85, I think there are only two gas stations in the state that carry it :Dou:
     
  15. supremeefi

    supremeefi supremeefi

    Bottom line is it's still a throttle body. Apples to apples it will exhibit the same puddling characteristics as a carb. ANY throttle body will do that.

    And there are a few here that disputed my statements some time ago about a system, any system, not being able to control spark and the importance of that. I caught major hell because I said any of those systems were inferior, including the EZ 1.0.
    Now all of a sudden the fact that the 2.0 has it it's the best thing since sliced bread.

    I can't figure you guys out. I guess Comp/FAST has you all brainwashed. They do advertise more than anybody so I guess that makes them the best huh. Whatever.

    The new Edelbrock system will trump this one in added features. It will have the software to do boost, spark control via temp and a whole bunch of other features. Be on the look out for a trick fuel pump arrangement from them as well. But it won't say FAST on it so it would be as good I'm sure:grin:
     
  16. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Thanks for the reassurance! (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0 coming out.)

    Hi Ken, Randall, and V-8 Buick leading edgers,

    Thanks for the reassurance! :TU: My thinking was to get my car up and running with its JW masterpiece and see how well everything worked before doing any tweaking. So this was a very unlikely upgrade for the short term. Still, as I've said before - thinking doesn't cost you anything but time!

    Correct on all counts! There just isn't enough in EZ-EFI 2.0 to make the upgrade worthwhile and California isn't a hotbed of alcohol fuel blends since it lacks a significant local production capacity. So for now I'll hold the course!

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  17. rollerball

    rollerball Well-Known Member

    I have the version 1.0 on three of my cars and i am very happy with the results. I would be pleased if they made the old version much cheaper. Did they give any indication on the new price level? If it was cheap enough i might be tempted to convert my other cars too...i have no engines over 600 hp and when the version 1 came out i even saw a video where they put it on a 620 ho SBB 572 where it performed as good as the carb at the very first run.
     
  18. Robs455

    Robs455 Well-Known Member

    Hi

    Paul im planning to go with a crank trigger from MSD & Programble Box, with a modified SBC Balanacer.
    The Ez-EFI requires a trigger system like the crank trigger. So there is an option for me.

    Did have everyonly experience with this on buick engines? Paul? :)

    regards

    Robert
     
  19. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Still not released yet. (Re: EZ-EFI 2.0 coming out.)

    Hi Robert and V-8 Buick leading edgers,

    Yes, you need a trigger to use some of the features of the EZ-EFI 2.0 system. However, the EZ-EFI 2.0 system is still a throttle-body fuel injection system (at delivered.) Where you thinking about modifying your intake manifold to get sequential intectors? I know FAST sells systems like that for Chevy engines. I don't know if EZ-EFI 2.0 has the electronics for that sort of arrangement though.

    As a throttle-body, I don't know if there is much to gained with a crack trigger. Perhaps Paul can enlighten us on that.

    Well, nobody has experience with EZ-EFI 2.0 - yet! It has only been announced, you still cannot purchase one. It isn't even listed on the FAST website yet. Experience with EZ-EFI 1.0 has been very favorable. If you need the additional features of EZ-EFI 2.0, you would be taking a chance, but the company has a good reputation.

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  20. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Robert

    There are a few Buick engines with the EZ-EFI 1.0, Edouard's engine being one of them.
    The dyno showed good results as far as power.

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...Hyd-roller-an-MPG-motor&p=2068967#post2068967

    The EZ-EFI 2.0 maps the ignition timing so you won't need the MSD programmable ignition.
    Yes you will need the crank trigger for precise timing
    You will just need a simple MSD box to fire the coil.

    The EZ-EFI 2.0 should be available by April ? but they are trying to be cautious and not release
    the product until they are sure it does everything they want it to without any problems.

    Paul
     

Share This Page