Escargot anyone??????? Yes, ANOTHER build thread from me...

Discussion in 'High Tech for Old Iron' started by theone61636, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Haha, yeah, its no easy task but once you've started you just have to grit your teeth and push through the fab work. Really, its not even the fab work that takes up time as much as the installing and removing everything over and over again to make sure fitment is right and to finish welding. Its been much faster this time having a lift available that's for sure.
     
  2. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Holy crap, what an exhaust 4 days that was and im still not even close it seems. i think i over enginnered the fuel pump housing but its solid and sturdy. Got the feed and return lines connected. My buddy spent all day trying to relearn TIG for the charge piping and made a real mess of it. lol. but, we'll try it out and if it holds pressure great, if not then ill have a professional make it. Also got the MSD box mounted and the fuel pump block off plate modified to take the -12 return line from the turbo. Ive got some more stuff coming in the mail (its amazing how you always need more ****) and will get back to it this weekend.

    has anyone ever seen or have experience with a single offset electrical fan good enough to keep things cool in traffic? i dont have enough room to run duals anymore and i dont think a pusher on one side will help enough to make a difference. i was thinking of getting a MK VIII fan and building a shround to cover the whole radiator but i know those fans are pretty large. i could always cut the hood latch support to angle radiator more but im pretty sure id have to delete the latch and go to hood pins and i dont know if the pins are enough to keep the hood down by themselves.

    ill get pics this weekend of the progress. ive reevaluated my golas to be more realistic so im shooting for a thanksgiving weekend light off...should eb a goof birthday present to myself. lol.
     
  3. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Offset fan with full shroud will work, not as well as a center mounted one of course, id definitely blanket the turbo to keep as much heat away from Rad as possible, which im sure you probably had planned anyway, another option is a another rad tha will allow you to move toward the grill so you can run duals and keep the latch, I myself would modify support move what needed to moved then use pins. I to made a frame for my A1000 bolts to the bumper bolts and has a 1/2in square tube chassis that extends off the 1/8in angle bracket that has hardned allen bolts welded in facing down and I used flanged washer head nuts so there wouldn't be hardware everywhere
    I use welded studs where ever possible makes wrenching much easier
     
  4. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    I don't know exactly how much width you have to work with but for $50 the HHR fan is pretty hard to beat. Even if you trim off the right side and rivet a piece of tin to put it back against the radiator it'd help quite a bit.

    From my Firebird thread. Granted it's an L6 with a 3 core brass-copper radiator, but sitting in stop and go southern California traffic as well as a few warm days the fan had no problem dropping the coolant temperature. I have it come on at 205F and shut off at 185F and the fan would cycle with in that range perfectly while sitting in traffic, aka maintaining perfect control of the coolant temps within it's programmed range.

    Here are the dimensions:
    [​IMG]

    and where a friend of mine trimmed one up. "Chevrolet HHR - single speed, unknown cfm but rumored to be somewhere between the Taurus and Mark VIII These fit 22" radiators very nice. best part is the price. ~$50 from GM dealer or Rockauto.com P/N 15817306 or GM3115200"
    http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?p=825306

    It's a possible option anyways.
     
  5. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Well, made some good progress today. The fuel system is done to include the pump wiring, got the BTM wired up, made the boost line for the BTM and wastegate and got the driveshaft loop installed. I know its not pretty, lol, but itll do the job i think. I'll probably enclose the pump with sheet aluminum to keep it safe from road debris and tire rubber. Tomorrow, i want to get the brace/support for the turbo done, get the wiring all secured and pretty, get the drain line made and bolt everything back in place for the final time and build the carburetor.

    10527275_10152928822530337_5440860087375911542_n.jpg 10600522_10152928822610337_8986685183890149479_n.jpg 544951_10152928822585337_6102389297790246839_n.jpg
     
  6. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    More parts on the way...hopefully, the last installment before light off. I decided to go with a new Taurus two speed electric fan with Dakota Digital fan controller. The plan is to section the fan's shround and extend it using aluminum sheet to cover the whole radiator. Hopefully, this wekeend all the fab work and assembly will be done and itll just be a matter of double checking things before i go to start it Thanksgiving weekend.
     
  7. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    This weekend was great! I got tons done to include: mounted and wired the Dakota Digital fan controller for my new Taurus two speed fan, got the turbo all mounted with the brace and oil lines hooked up, fabbed the charge pipe and paited it Buick red, and made the block off plate for the blower fan box. We finally were ready to do a system check yesterday early afternoon and found we had a fuel leak coming from the fuel line where i had tried to weld a -6 fitting to the steel fuel line that bolts to the carb. Well, an hour later of grinding and welding and more welding i just went and got a new one. Bolted it in, squirted some fuel into the engine and turned her over...fired up the first time! after i set the fuel pressure and djusted the floats the car idled perfectly. no other fuel or oil leaks at this time so as of now everything seems to be running great.

    i did rev the engien up a few times enough to hear the turbo start to spool. what an awesome sound! only some minor things now that i have to wrap up in order to drive it home this weekend. my buddy took a video of the engine running so ill try to get that posted when i get home today.

    surprisingly, the exhaust was pretty damn quiet for dumping out right behinf the firewall. i forgot how much a turbo will muffle the exhaust. no i just need to fab the rest of the system and throw on a muffler to be street legal and ill be good to go.
     
  8. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Mufflers are overrated. :idea2:
     
  9. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    I don't plan on running a muffler after the turbo on my Firebird when I get to that bridge.
     
  10. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut Staff Member

    I know that when Jay was racing his Twin Turbo Skylark he had trouble hearing his engine at all when racing loud vehicles... I have a full 3" dual setup and I think it will be really quiet as well.
     
  11. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Hopefully, this works for everyone. Thats me waving to the camera.

    [video]https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152877599043044[/video]
     
  12. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Well, shes up and running. My buddy and i stayed up late last night and got the exhaust mocked up and finished the welding today. Got everything buttoned up took her for her first drive.

    Issues: Even with the BTM taking 3* per pound of boost, under load/high rpm and full throttle im experiencing some kind of noise (detonation???) and loss of power. It does NOT do this during part throttle acceleration nor does it do it when i rev the engine while in neutral. I can only assume its a timing issue so i will put some stiffer springs in it tomorrow and limit the mechanical advance and see if that does anything.

    The only other issue is with the electric fan. I kept blowing the fuses on the power leads to the relays. The relays are 70 and the fuses were 25 ao im assuming the amp spike when the fan would kick on was killing them. I checked every wire for grounds or kinks or anything and nothing seemed out of place or loose. Even used mulit-meter to check for ground. Do i even need to use an inline fuse? Wont the relay trip if something goes wrong? Anyway, i hardwired teh power leads to the battery to get myself home and everything ran as it should. Temps never got about 195. Plus, it has a programmable delay after you turn the key off to keep the fan on for a while. Pretty awesome controller.

    AFRs were actually pretty close. Its a little richer than id like but for now ill leave it as is until i figure out this timing issue. Anyway, on to the pics:

    The exhaust is 4" all the way back through a Summit glasspack. VERY deep tone and sound awesome! i think im going to add a flex joint between the downpipe and the solid mount so i dont have the engine trying to torque on the exhaust. Plenty of clearance for the driveshaft and floor pan.
    1509947_10152957487205337_5569881549583948224_n.jpg 10481149_10152956804090337_6706413008023533181_n.jpg 1510895_10152956803965337_7964114666129109673_n.jpg 10418964_10152956804025337_4901478591338806378_n.jpg 10410641_10152956803840337_7446058879632796308_n.jpg
    The electric fan has about a 1/4" clearance between the compressor housing and the shroud and about a fingers width between the turbo shield. I checked for any warpage after the first drive and all is well.
    10294240_10152957487335337_8883391347456153312_n.jpg

    Driveshaft loop is welded to the floor pan and the bottom part is bolt in for easy driveshaft removal.
    10612723_10152957487110337_8665861546321791822_n.jpg

    The ac box was cut down to make room for the downpipe. its covered by aluminum sheet and sealed with rtv.
    10350445_10152957487250337_5667246636110828130_n.jpg

    Last but not least, i got a grill emblem from a 80s T-type Riv, renewed the black and put it in place of the original emblem. Subtle detail but totally worth it i think.
    1907953_10152955122210337_4182849409948510494_n.jpg
     
  13. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Which MSD box are you using?
    Are you running E85 or Gas
     
  14. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    MSD 6BTM and 91 Octane.
     
  15. Alssb

    Alssb Well-Known Member

    Rich is better than lean!
    Yes,you need a fuse.
     
  16. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Id try to keep timing at 18 to 22max under full boost in 3rd gear, and im not sure I seen what psi you plan to run im gonna.imagine below 12, but id go ahead and invest in a Meth setup or e85, being non intercooled.
     
  17. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    With the vacuum advance disconnected and the 1/8" boost line going to the BTM disconnected, what is your total timing at 3000 rpm?

    If you have a leak down tester or another type of air regulator, connect it to the BTM line and slowly apply pressure and check to see if you are getting boost retard with a timing light.

    Then make sure the BTM line goes to a fitting directly on the intake manifold, not to any fitting on the carburetor.
     
  18. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    I'll get the timing reading for you. Right now the line to the mad box is coming from the carb hat. Is there a reason I should not being using that as a source? That's also where my wastegate and fpr are receiving their signal from as well.
     
  19. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Wasegste spring is set for 7 psi and the highest I saw was 5 because I had to get out of it. I have a meth injection setup installed I just need to wire it up.

    I'm wondering if maybe I'm experiencing valve float and that's what the noise is. Why would I get this issue under load only and not when I free rev the engine?
     
  20. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    The engine only sees the pressure or vacuum that's in the intake manifold so you want to control timing, fuel pressure and wastegate based on what is going on at the intake manifold.

    At partial throttle the HAT has a lot more pressure (Absolute) than the intake manifold and your control ends up being way off.
    Also when the throttle is closed during boost there are pressure spikes at the hat while the intake manifold has high vacuum.
    Always reference off the intake manifold.

    On our engines we take it a step further and use braided lines that use screw on fittings because engines have been damaged when a boost reference line came loose or was damaged

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014

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