Escargot anyone??????? Yes, ANOTHER build thread from me...

I dont see how ignition would play such a huge role in a "street" vs "race" tune. I mean i understand more timing = more power but in a boosted situation i need octane to prevent detonation so timing plays a role but assuming adequate fuel flow and equal boost on street vs track, would timing really be able to keep from going boom?

I've been doing some research and it looks like meth injection can be used with great success on blow thru carb setups. Since i already have the inj setup ill give it a try. Ill conver my carb to blow thru for gasoline and supplement with Ethanol injection to increase octane and cool the intake charge.

Anyway, heres some more parts porn for you:
Turbosmart 60mm wastegate and Race Port BOV, Summit driveshaft loop, and i got a couple 2.5" u-bends to fab up the crossover. I got a couple of v-band assemblies but i guess i clicked on the wrong one because i needed 2.5" and got 3" so i need to reorder.

 

Timing is HUGE part of tuning with boost. Go hang out on a turbo Buick forum. Do not care what kind of fuel you use too much timing will cause detonation and with boost you will have the kaboom you are talking about.

As far as pulling timing with boost look at the Buick GN. From the factory they came with a knock sensor and what was then a big deal engine management system that pulled timing when knock was detected. They were tuned for 87 octane. One of the first things tuners did was to retune for 93 octane. With better fuel timing could be added. But if you ran higher boost timing would be pulled.

In a way it is real simple. Less boost you can have more timing, more boost you need less timing. Standard rule of thumb is pull one degree of timing for each pound of boost. You usually want to run as much timing as you can without having "knock" or detonation (real detonation is very bad.) Generally with higher octane you can have more timing.

Of course it is not really that simple. Here are the things that can effect the equation: fuel, fuel ratio, combustion chamber shape, cam profile, inlet air temperature, compression ratio and ignition timing. Modern engines have fuel sensors, temp sensors, map sensors, knock sensors and the management systems adjust for all of those things. Then they spend tons of time tuning for all the variables. In the end as boost is added timing will be pulled.

So here is the deal. If you run the 32 to 36 degrees total timing that a normally aspirated Buick BB likes and then add 8 pounds of boost you will probably blow your motor. If you are quick on the throttle and lucky you may save it because all of a sudden you will loose power big time.

 

More timing does not necessarily= more power in a boosted engine.

There are TWO situations that involve timing.

One is detonation which is a combination of octane versus timing, mixture temp, compression, A/F ratio, cylinder turbulence and so on.
If you need to retard the timing to control detonation because one or more of the other parameters are out of line then yes there will be a loss of power.

The other is having peak cylinder pressure occur at the right point ATDC for max power. (somewhere around 14* ATDC)
The more boost or the more dense the air/fuel mixture is, the faster it burns so if you want peak pressure to happen at the same place ATDC to optimize power you need to retard the timing as boost increases.
If the timing is not retarded with boost you lose power because the early cylinder pressure is working against the piston as it moves up to TDC and it also puts unwanted stress on the engine.

By all means do use the methanol injection to control detonation but still consider retarding the timing for the sake of power and engine longevity.

sailbrd is giving you good advice.

I have used the 6AL-2 programmable box for street/strip. It's a good unit.
One of the features you could use is the 2 step rev limiter if you are going to race at the track.
To be consistent, once you stage you need to be WOT and control the launch boost by rev limiting.
Do you have a transbrake or do you footbrake?

A few years back we ran both Top Sportsman and 10.5 outlaw best of 6.82 @ 210 mph. We used a 3 step where you foot-break coming into the lights just below the converter to get boost started then once on the transbrake it would jump to the higher 2 step to get launch boost to 12 lbs all at WOT. After launch the boost controller would ramp it up to 35 lbs of boost.

This is one of our gas runs. Launch at 9 lbs, run at 25 lbs. 7.03 @ 198 mph
Top line is rpm, bottom line is boost.

 

A less expensive alternative to the MSD 6AL-2 is the CB Performance Black Box.

I haven't used it but I'm not seeing any bad reviews either.

http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2013

It comes with a built in map sensor which saves additional cost.

Jason... do you foot brake or do you have a trans brake?

 

Thanks for the link, ill check it out. I footbrake. However, the track i go to isn't prepped all that well so i cant really leave the line with much throttle or ill just spin as it is. The track i went to in VA, i could footbreak to 2500rpms and just mash the pedal and it would hook. Same suspension and tires.

 

Last of the exhaust pieces i needed. Tomorrow starts the fun!

 

It's been a busy couple of days. Didn't get quite as much done as I would've liked but still good progress. Did 2.25" piping into a merge and then 3" pipe from the merge to the mounting flange. Can't see it in the pic but where the two pipes merge into one I have an exhaust hanger connected to each pipe supported by the radiator core support. This prevents any vertical movement of the turbo. I still plan to do at least one horizontal support bracket from the block to the mounting flange.

I angled the radiator forward but im probably going to notch the upper support and push it forward even more for extra clearance. The airbox will be coming out and im going to section it to make room for the downpipe. My buddy wants me to keep the dual exhaust i have so we'll have to figure out the y-pipe at some point.

 

Oh Baby Oh Baby!! :3gears:

 

A couple more shots of the exhaust. We didnt plan for it but interestingly enough, each pipe came out to 48" from the exhaust flange to the merge. not sure if that matters but it was pretty cool coincidence.

 

Looking good!

Are you going to wrap the pipes to keep the heat in for the turbo?

 

Absolutely! I already had a box of DEI header wrap laying around so it worked out well.

 

Good work, it should come together really well!

 

Does the saying "I rather be lucky than good" apply? :grin:

 

And sometimes, "you have to be good to be lucky".

 

HAHA, what scares me is I'm neither good nor lucky.

 

All the rest of my parts arrived today! Most of its fuel stuff in some form or another. All those damn hose ends and fuel fittings are what killed me.

 

Damn. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. :shock:

 

Not a whole lot done yesterday, but the downpipe is made! Today, i hope to get the waste gate piping done and start on the fuel system.

 

Well, we got done what we wanted today. The hotside piping is all done and mounted. Still need to do a little bracing and finish the exhaust system but its all together. We'll run it without the heat wrap for a little while to make sure we dont have any exhaust leaks. I also got the FPR mounted and the feed line routed to the back of the car. I'm going to build a frame for the A1000 to put it right next to the gas tank level with the sump outlet.

 

I plan on doing a turbo setup on my Firebird and I'm worried about doing it, and you're over there killing the assembly work in short order and making me jealous. Nice job! :TU: