What's the "latest" word on cryogenics? (Did some searching on the board, but all info is older, and I'm looking for the latest developments.) I have a place in IL, that will do the entire engine (except for the wrist pins, which they don't do), for $575. That includes EVERYTHING, except wrist pins. I'm seriously thinking of having it done. I understand that you can have it done at the very last moment right before final assembly. This will be a street/strip 700HP 464 that I'll turn to 7K+...... hence the reasons for the cryogenics. Give me your feedback.....good or bad. Thanks, Steve
Steve, I have done it before.. don't do the final hone until it's been thru the process. I have done engine blocks and stock con rods.. No bad experience, and it does work. JW
Steve,what is this suppose to do? I shot peen all my blocks and now request it at machine shops I have my work done at. Does freezing them stress relief them? My focus is debur the whole block and file every sharp edge on the entire engine prior to shot peening. This eliminates all stress areas. I'm interested in this, please explain what this does. Sincerely Gary Mc.
As per JW he must have been out in the snow too. really interesting to read about the benefits of this I know Ford used this cryo cracked rod thing and those cobra 4 valve engines seem to run nice and stay together.
Seems I can find "positive" comments on it's use and "neutral" comments like "why spend the money", but nothing "bad" that caused failure of any kind . I think that for what I'm trying to accomplish I'm going to give it a try. I won't be ready for the process until summer 2016 (at best), so I'll keep searching for info in the meantime. Thanks everyone! Steve
In a "nutshell" from Wikipedia; A cryogenic treatment is the process of treating workpieces to cryogenic temperatures (i.e. below −190 C (−310 F)) in order to remove residual stresses and improve wear resistance on steels. In addition to seeking enhanced stress relief and stabilization, or wear resistance, cryogenic treatment is also sought for its ability to improve corrosion resistance by precipitating micro-fine eta carbides, which can be measured before and after in a part using a quantimet. The process has a wide range of applications from industrial tooling to the improvement of musical signal transmission. Some of the benefits of cryogenic treatment include longer part life, less failure due to cracking, improved thermal properties, better electrical properties including less electrical resistance, reduced coefficient of friction, less creep and walk, improved flatness, and easier machining.[ With that being said I see no reason not to try it... other than the $575 and the cost to haul it there and back.
Back in my snowmobile racing days we were sponsored by "300 Below". So we had most everything done engine wise but also including suspension parts and even clutch springs. All I can say is we won....A lot. The only thing measurable I can remember were the clutch springs. They would wear out (lose spring pressure) relatively quickly. And it did help when we had them treated. Oh, also one year the team we helped win the 24hr's of Eagle River race, we had all the suspension parts done. It was pretty amazing, they won with pretty much all the original suspension parts we started the race with, and all the competitions had to change pretty much everything throughout the race, including complete skids. But just to be fair, we also used a certain lubricant we were sponsored by.
If you have ever witnessed what it does to a brake rotor's life, you would have no question about the fact that the process does work. I actually first got involved with a local place the does it, for a set of brake rotors for my 89 Suburban. I used to just eat thru them. After having a set of them frozen, they lasted the rest of the life of the truck, and were on it when it went to the junkyard, about 40K miles later. I was lucky to get 5K miles out of a set of unfrozen ones. The skepticism comes in part from the fact that the part does not " Look" any different after the process, and in part from the folks who are saying that are the "I don't need no dyno, we don't race dyno's" crowd. You can't fix stupid.. I have tried, trust me.. ou: I cryo-treated the block/main/lifter bore girdles assembly as a "standard" procedure for any iron block motor that was slated to make more than 650 HP. Of course I also filled the blocks the installed a girdle "my way" by leaving .100 extra material in the main caps, and machining the girdle cross bars accordingly. To use it as a street piece, you have to go light on the block fill, to keep engine temps in line. Success of that project will depend on how good a block you can come up with. I don't do that much anymore, but did build one here recently, for a guy who was not able to run an alum block in the class he is running at his local track. With the advent of Buick main spec aluminum blocks, a 503ci motor is not that much more money then a 464 with all the hoops to jump thru, to have a decent shot at it being around for a reasonable service life. For my money, the extra couple grand is worth it.. and I have the first 503 going together in January. A 503 is a TA block with the 4.500 bore, with my 470 internals. Anyway.. good luck, and do the process, it works. JW
Jim, is this process done after all the deburring and filing of the block or before? I'm interested in this process. Sincerely Gary Mc.
The transmission gears and shaft are "glass jaw" when turning up the power in the early turbocharged Subaru WRX 5 speed manual. At first, the only cure was to step up to the STI 6 speed transmission requiring the entire drivetrain from the transmission back. That proposition is is $4-5K used. A few people started sending out the gears and shaft out of 5 speed transmissions to be cyro treated and, before long, it was an accepted method of using the five speed behind engines with more then twice the stock horsepower. Now several of the "better known" Subaru transmission shops recommend the treatment for their higher horsepower 5 speed builds. We have not done this yet, but have a broken 5 speed here that will be having the new gears and main shaft treated as part of the repair. Cheryl
Also, I have it done by these guys.. http://www.frozenrotors.com/services/cryogenic-processing/ In a filled block, use this filler: http://www.competitionproducts.com/...k-Filler-25-lbs/productinfo/ROK/#.VoU6LVJUW7c When you fill, do it just to about the middle of the frost plugs, no higher, or you will have oil temp issues. About 1.5-2" in the bottom of the bores. That will help stabilize the bottom end for the rpm your talking about. And one thing they cryo guys said.. all the mosture has to be out of the filler, so it's good to fill it for a month or two before you freeze it. When I don't have that month, I fill it, and then take it to one of my machine shops that has an oven, and we bake it on low for a hour to insure all the mosture is gone. Then we machine it completely, save for the final hone. When the cryo process is done, all the fasteners are left hand tight. JW
I went and did a simple search in google. "Cryogenics for automotive use" one of the first places showed up was " 300below.com>motorsports" They explain in great detail what Cryogenics does, boy, it's interesting needless to say. Thanks for posting this. Sincerely Gary Mc.
This is an old thread I know but I was always curious about the Cryo treatments... When I got my Billet 350 crank from King Cranks they did cryo treatment on the crank and they said that it was safe for 1500 HP no problem.
