Conv Switch

Discussion in 'The ragtop shop' started by bmcmillan, Aug 2, 2002.

  1. r72gs

    r72gs Another project........

    Tim,
    I agree the relay should be as close to the source of power, I meant to check the ground as a possible source of burning up switches.

    There is a place in New England that rebuilds top switches, with a lifetime warantee. I'll see if I can look them up.
     
  2. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    Just as an update to all this, was at the wreckers yesterday and found several helpful items. Was pulling the dash out of a 70 skylark with rear defog and noticed it also had another connector in the defrost instrument panel harness..it looks just like the ragtop harness connector but the wires are only 18 gauge. Not sure what it was for (what else would be there that doesn't need big power??)but its perfect since there will be no splicing needed into a switch assembly for a relay setup.

    Also, mid 90's grand ams have a whole whack of relays in them, even come with weatherpack connectors and a nice little bracket they slide onto. they are located behind the passenger side strut tower...one input and output to control one power in/out contact rated at 30A, 12V. Also, all kinds of cool relays and cool connectors on those cars. Guys at wreckers threw them in, beats 20.00 each I was quoted for new ones at local electronics shop.

    One other thing, this 70 instrument bezel had only the lower level vents..the one in the dash to the LH side is actually filled in and has a buick plate in it just like the RH side usually does when no options speciifed. Odd.

    And I FINALLY found a door!!!! It appears to have be reskinned at one time since there are small weld marks around the perimeter inside door edge, but excellent shape, no rust at all, very straight.

    Just some useless info.

    later
    Tim
     
  3. 69customskylark

    69customskylark Well-Known Member

    Hey fellas,

    I'd also be interested in an alternate to the built in convertible switch. The spring in mine is shot, and the top no longer lowers all the way.

    Eric
     
  4. 225Ragtop

    225Ragtop Member

    ragtop switch

    Jim, a while back you had a post on making a relay kit for convertible switches. I have two Electra ragtops and the switches still work, but you never know....so I would be interested in a couple of kits if you decide to make them.

    Sandor
     
  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Hi Sandor,

    How have you been? It was good to meet you and your wife out at Duane's party... And you have a really beautiful Electra ragtop.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Guys, allow me a few words on the design/testing philosophy here at Tri-Shield, to explain why this kit is not yet available..

    I have not forgotten about this project, but we are really in a push right now, to finish the race car in the shop, and handle other small restoration and performance projects, as they come in. Not to mention my time commitments to the BPG, and this BB.

    As with everything I develop, I have to put a new product in a car, and prove out the product, before I will offer it for sale. Often times things look great on paper, but put into practice, we uncover issues that need to be dealt with, before we offer it to the rest of the Buick crowd. And although I realize that this is not the best way to make money selling parts, it is the best way to insure our potential customers, that what they purchase from Tri-Shield, will perform as advertised. This starts with the major turn key race and street cars, thru the complete motors/transmissions/converters, down to the smaller kits that we offer for sale.

    To look at it another way, basically what I offer for sale, are parts of the complete cars we do here.. lets take for example one of our street performance engines.... if you buy our level 1 performance street motor (known as the convert motor) then you can be assured it is the right motor for your application.. as I have not only designed, personally built, and proven the eingine on the dyno, but have also put that exact combo in a complete car, and operated the vehicle. This gives us the rare ability to competently tell a customer what they need to compliment that engine, in the areas of trans/converter/gearing, and can give an educated testimonial on how it works.

    It's a "been there, done that" type of thing.. And that filters down to even the smallest of parts or kits, like this convertable top relay deal. I have a pair of convertables that will be in the shop this fall/winter, and both cars will get that system, to prove out it's merits. Once I am satisfied that the system works properly, installs easily, and is durable, then I will offer it to the the rest of you guys.

    Yes, I could certainly just whip something up, throw it in the car, and say... let's take this to market... but I don't believe in doing business that way.

    This system is on paper, and I have sourced some very high quality parts for it, but actual installation and testing will not occure until this winter/next spring... the kits should be available at the start of "ragtop season" (at least in the northern states) next year.

    So hang on, we will have a proven product to sell you, in the not so distant future.

    Thanks,

    JW
     
  6. 225Ragtop

    225Ragtop Member

    Hi, Jim. Nice of you to remember. I like your design philosophy - after all your reputation will rest on it. So we'll wait till you're ready.
    Another question - We talked about building up the motor in my 70 Electra, with the 455. Right now it has posi rear with 2.78 gears. One of the fellows on the board has a 3.08 rear end that's supposed to bolt right in. Would that make sense with your switch pitch tranny, or would there be enough torque for the 2.78 rear end. Since the car would be mainly for cruising, I kind of like the low (numerical) gears. Also, would you go for a different/better axle? Say 30 splines or whatever/

    Thanks,

    Sandor
     
  7. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Mmnnnn...

    If you had a 2.56 or so, and had to chance to get the 3.08, I would say jump at it... but right now your talking about only .3 of a turn, and your typically not going to notice that a ton..

    On the flip side, it certainly could not hurt.. and it's never a bad idea to have an extra rear laying around.

    Now, if your really out to build a stormer.. then I would prolly recommend a 9" Ford unit.


    Yes, our 12" VP converter would really "wake it up", with very little/no loss in "cruisablity"... and mileage.

    I always have thought that it would be fun to put a big inch motor in that type of application, with a short duration cam, and focus the design concept on torque, in the 2800-4500 rpm range. I know we discussed this briefly, but since then I have been doing some thinkin..

    And.... hang on to your hat's boys.. I would top off the combo with a custom set of 1 3/4 inch primary size headers, with 3 or 3 1/4 inch collectors headers....:eek2:

    We need to not accept the "status quo" when dealving into these unique applications. It would certainly be an interesting project, albeit an expensive one.

    I am not sure if that is what you had in mind, budget-wise, and we can certainly work with you, for any level of engine you desire.

    But I tell ya' it has always bugged me that we are putting the same primary size/ collector size headers on all these iron motors... from the "warmed over" 425 HP street motors, to the 650 HP race motors.. Just doesn't seem right, from a design point of view.

    And it's not, but the big equalizing factor is cost... you can get into a good set of mass produced, and coated headers for around $550, custom stuff can easily be twice that, or more.

    And the fact is, on motors from 500HP on up, then the 1 7/8 header is the right choice.

    We may test this theory out on one of the current cars being done in the shop, a '72 stage convert, for which we are builing our "convert" motor.

    JW
     
  8. 225Ragtop

    225Ragtop Member

    Jim, given that my Electra will weigh about 5000 lbs with full tank and driver, let alone passanger (even though she only weighs 115 lbs), it is a heavy car, and I guess I would be looking for low-midrange torque and power (like you said 2800-4500rpm). In this case you would want high air flow at low rpm, so you would have smaller ports and smaller diameter headers. Is that right? At what point you transition into bigger ports and fancy heads? What cam do you have in mind? How heavy is the convert you are working on now?

    Sandor
     
  9. 69customskylark

    69customskylark Well-Known Member

    About the convertible switch, is there a good way to bypass the switch with a seperate battery/wiring or something to test my motor/hydraulics? I'm not sure if my switch is burned out, or if it's something more serious. when I engage the switch, it starts to run, but stops short of lowering all the way.

    Eric:Do No:
     
  10. bmcmillan

    bmcmillan Dented Hood Tach

    Following up

    Jim: (JW)

    Remember you talked about building a kit for the convertible switch. Well, I have purchased a different switch, and I would like to buy that kit you talked about. Is it still possible for you to put it together?
    I don't want to loose another switch. And most of all, I want to Drop the Top.
    Thanks
    :beer
     
  11. lcac_man

    lcac_man Hovercraft Technician

    Convert. Relay Setup

    Sounds like it will be next year before TSP gets this to market, my car is pulled down now and I'm in the process of reinstalling the harness' for systems check before it goes out for body/paint. I'm going to use a relay control for my top motor, haven't decided whether to use two standard SP/ST or go with a single double.
    I'll forward details and pic's when I get to that point.
     
  12. lcac_man

    lcac_man Hovercraft Technician

    Looks like two singles will be the way to go, anybody got an idea of how much the pump draws? It's 12ga. running back there, I'm thinking a 40 or 50A relay setup. I'm going to run a 6ga lead back there and split it for my stereo amp and the pump so I'll have a total of three relays back there, will install a fuse/fusable link up front at the source for saftey.
     
  13. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Re: Convert. Relay Setup


    He's right, I'm a ways away from having one of the ragtops done, and as with everthing I sell, I will not rush any new product, just to get it to market.. I have to prove to myself that it works, and is durable..

    I am about 2 months behind on the car schedule in the shop, partly due to the explosion in the engine business in the last 3 months, and partly due to the race car fabrication project from hell..

    Mental note to self.. next time you quote a tube chassis race car, add 30% to the estimate.. then you might break even on it.. :Dou:

    JW
     
  14. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest


    Hello:

    Try www.thepartsplaceinc.com. It is sold on page on page 13 for $129 with a 50 dollar core charge.
     
  15. smellypants

    smellypants Active Member

    Do you have a core? Greg Becker just rebuilt mine. I believe he warrenties it for life???
     
  16. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    Jim....put me down for one of the Relays - definately - when you get a RoundToIt

    Ummmm......thinking of it - I guess putting all 4 windows down at the same time could be the reason the power lead in my 4-way power window switch module fried:Dou: :Dou:

    Jim - I need one of those thingies too while you have your eyes open - the module that connects to the 4-way drivers switch. Thin....lots of leads.

    Would like the whole harness but a few feet of wire attached to the module will do (I know how to solder)
     
  17. tlivingd

    tlivingd BIG BLOCK, THE ANTI PRIUS

    amperage

    question... what is the factory breaker rating on the fuse panel for the convertable pump motor? (I don't have my manual or car near me)

    I'm looking at figuring the parts and wiring diagram's to set up a convertable top switch relay setup from a major electronic mail order supplier and it would be a DIY project. (simple soldering) and i'd post wiring diagrams

    also this kit would require cutting and splicing into the factory system in the dash (asuming your factory wires are fine)

    It could be possable to do with minimal cuttting of the factory harness (if any cutting) If you were to run a new positive wire into the trunk. (I'm pretty sure this will need to be a #10 or #8 wire.) again if factory wires are fine but they would cary much less load.

    what would you guys be intrested in?
     
  18. buickman70

    buickman70 I pirated this pic!!!

    I thought I would bring this post up to the top, as I am interested in a relay also. Any progess in the testing, JimW?
     
  19. tlivingd

    tlivingd BIG BLOCK, THE ANTI PRIUS

    hey guys, how would you like to see it. there is the good way to do it where it all fits under the dash. (requires cutting and splicing off of current wiring harnesses and uses old wire to carry the current)
    or there is the completely added way that requires re running a 12-10 awg line from your battery to the trunk. and the old lines will carry milliamps.


    Nate
     
  20. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    I came up with a system that will use two relays, plugs into the factory harness with no splicing, no mods...the switch will carry small signal current and the factory wires will carry the main current as per original back to the pump.

    I have no doubt it will work fine, but can't really say much more until I can install and test it. Be a year or more for sure...only thing I am struggling with is where to mount the relays so they are out of the way and accessable at the same time.

    No way am I gonna run30 amps through that tiny little switch with its tiny little contacts. I am shocked GM did it that way!

    later
    Tim
     

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