I'm just curious about over-the-counter options and how they are treated in concours or "is it proper" type judging. Things like sport mirrors on a 1970 GS, front and/or rear spoilers on a non-GSX car, MT headers, etc.
You would be docked for all 3 of those things on a 70 GS by any judge with eyes in GSCA, BCA, MCACN, and probably AACA. I've judged, and been judged, trust me.
So, from that book...it's -4 for mirrors, -4 for manifolds, -? for the spoiler(s) and BOOM! If everything else is flawless you're on the Silver edge. That's how fast it happens. What Roberta posted, if you are going to compete for points, you need the rules of the club and class you plan to compete in. Then you check everything yourself and fix it. Then when you get to the show, you ask somebody with experience to look at your car. Maybe they see something that will cost you points that you can fix easily. You need to do your homework.
You would not like the answer to your question regarding the concours classes, however this is why we set up a "modified" class for the GSCA and the BPG. I don't know if the GSCA still uses my system of not. You would need to ask someone from the club. I just looked at the rules Roberta posted and that is what I set up for the club for the Concours class. Duane PS, don't even think of putting in a tissue dispenser either.
Thanks, Duane. I didn't post my Qs to like or dislike the answers. Just wanting to know since, in over 35 years, I've never entered concours judging.
Not necessarily the case with all judges in all of those clubs. I didn't get a deduction for sport mirrors on my 70 GS convert at BCA Nationals in 2007 ( I was shocked). I did get docked for chrome tire stems and a dirty floor mat though (in my defense I was showing two cars and forget to remove my "driving" floor mat, my show mat was underneath it).
but Duane, the tissues come in handy when the guys learn what was found by the judges to be incorrect on their cars.
Well...I believe you Chris. I probably should have said "Most likely", because a lot of times it's a crap shoot. I've judged a lot in National events. Sometimes, people who judge don't really know the cars. Often, there's a shortage of judges. The judges work in teams. I've experienced some crazy judging stuff in national events. My own feeling is, that the head judge of the team should at least own, or have built, a top car that has scored high points. I don't want someone who drives a Buick powered rat rod judging my car. Judging is a thankless job, too. It's hot, it takes a long time, if you dock somebody for something, they will sometimes complain. Everybody just wants to have fun. If you judge, you miss seeing some of the best cars, because they only unload them the day of judging, and when it's done...it's back on the trailer.
The AACA will be the most difficult, since they won't tell you what deductions were taken. You will also be lucky to have someone familiar with our Buicks on the judging team. Last year I was the only member on the team at MCACN familiar with our Buicks.
Points deducted for modern radial tires? How about 71 & up rallye wheels on a '70? I don't mind point deductions. Just want to get an idea of what I'm willing to change and what I'm not.
Ray, If you know something is wrong, the judges will probably too. I know of a few people that have "show only" wheels and tires. Sometimes cars have borrowed tires. The 71 up wheels and modern tires would probably result in the full wrong wheels and tires deduction.
Ray, Sometimes the owners do not want us to look at their cars before judging, however quite often an owner will ask us to pre-judge their vehicle a few days before it is judged. This would give them time to "fix" a few things before the event. If you want to give me a call to go over things send me a PM with your number and I will call you back. I can let you know about a few things we look for. Duane PS, they probably did not deduct points off for the sport mirrors because they did not know they were not available for that year car.
Radial tires were not available on the 70-72 A-bodies. One thing to mention, some clubs enforce certain deductions, like tires and/or rims. They will state these areas as "mandatory deductions" and if the items are incorrect, then the total amount of points for that area will be deducted. If you have the incorrect rims & tires on a car, some clubs will knock you right out of "gold" for that alone. Lastly, you have 15 points to play with and still get a gold, so if you want to take a few hits and not change something then go for it. Duane
